SPEAKER_02 0:00

Yo, this is Paul Ayash, and welcome to the Hosper Dojo podcast, where we cut through the noise and talk about what it really takes to build, grow, and scale a hoteli business in the modern era. Let's dive in. A single dessert taken from a family recipe and pushed further than most people would ever dare. Served across Melbourne, New York, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and Beirut. Featured in collaborations with Qantas, Formula One, Lamborghini, Microsoft, and Etienne AOA. In this episode of the Hotspur Dojo podcast, I'm sitting down with Emilio Isa, co-founder and creative director of Knafe Bakery. We unpack what it really takes to build and sustain a hoteli business around the single hero product. From launching out of a shipping container in Sydney to scaling globally without losing the soul of the brand. This is the fun stuff, the tough stuff, and the real stuff most people never talk about.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

That's right, ladies and gentlemen. We are broadcasting live here from Darlington. I actually studied a few hundred metres away from here. Really? Where? Sydney University. What'd you study? I studied architecture.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Really? Really? I thought you were. I know, but what type of architecture do you study? What'd you what do you like to specialise in?

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Well, I didn't specialise into anything until later on when I worked on a lunar park redevelopment for a company called Hassel Architects as a young cadet. But I always loved designing and creating from a young age. And I always knew I wanted to be an architect. And so obviously years passed, and we might touch it, touch onto that.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Welcome to the Hospital Dojo Podcast. Are we recording?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Oh, okay, cool. All right. How's that for an introduction? Actually, yeah. So architecture. That's where it all started. Well, hospitality, architecture. My two worlds came together.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

For those that don't know who's on the podcast right now, we have Emir Elisa is actually I just know him as Amir Shisha by in my phone for the past 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Funny you say that. I've got you saved under Paul Petra.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

See? Our worlds collided so many times. Um in good ways. Yeah, in great ways. But Emir Emir for me, guys, and I'll say this openly, was the first person I called when I thought about the Hospital Dojo. And uh I remember it was me, my wife sitting on the couch, and I had this crazy idea in March of 2020. Oof, it was 2023, and uh I was thinking of starting this whole Instagram journey, and then my mentor at the time asked me to reach out to my network and see who's someone that I looked up to that did great PR, uh was great in the space, was well respected by peers and individuals, and there was not one better person that I knew uh that was like that. So I called you. And uh I get emotional because out of all the people I called, you're the one that answered. So I just want to say thank you, and uh yeah, bro. It was uh you're making me emotional. Nah, it's it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Thank you for sharing that.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Yeah, no, it's I don't take that lightly either. Yeah, like I was at a point in my life where I didn't know uh what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. Uh it was like a bit of an imposter syndrome at the time. And I'll never forget, you just said to me, if you do something with your heart and you believe in God, everything will happen. So I just want to say uh I love you, bro. I'm so proud of you.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

I don't know if I deserve that honor, and I just want to say thank you for being so vulnerable on your show. I've never like because people gotta understand how tough it is to be in a position where we're doing it tough, and sometimes we carry that alone. Thousand percent, bro. And I feel honored that you picked up that phone and called me that day.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

I'll never forget, it was crazy, it's fucking crazy. I was like, I was like, I didn't know where to go, didn't know what to do. Um had this weird idea and uh of this platform, and you know, I wanted to reach out, and I I had no one like around me that would be able to, you know, support, and then I just said, you know what? You answered, I'll never forget it. And I know that most of our dealings over the time has always been commercial and stuff, uh, but your words then, bro, like for us it was never commercial, yeah. I know, but like realistically, like in in in wholeheartedly, you gave me that day, you gave me confidence to start. So uh Wow Yeah, I didn't even know the impact that I had. Yeah, that's a person you are, bro.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

So just thank you then you know we all live our lives, and sometimes we don't know the impact that we have on other people's life, and I'm sure you've had that impact on a lot of people that without even knowing sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

That's exactly right. Like, so uh like for me it's been a journey where I'm like, oh, like I can't wait to you know have you on here because subconsciously it's like a milestone of achievement going fuck like I've seen my other mentors who I've worked with in this space, they look up to other people that have helped them on the journey, and then when they get to speak to that person that gave them that, you know, first just that bro, that little push that you need. Um yeah, so yeah, you gave me that push, bro.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Going into today, I didn't know what we're gonna talk about, and we said we're just gonna talk from the heart. 100%. And I didn't know something like this was gonna come up, and I'm truly grateful for your honesty.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Oh my god, yeah, bro. So, like thank you. Just so you know, when I started, I had 600 people on my platform, which was like a family and friend page, uh, and then I started posting random shit till today. Amy still didn't follow me on Instagram only till the car that he got in, and he didn't even know what the hell I've been doing over the past two and a half years. And uh we reached over 130,000 followers organically on Instagram. But we've spoken a lot on the phone. Oh, we always speak, and I've showed you and I've sent you photos, and you've been so supportive. Um, but me really didn't see the extent of where where I've gone with it, and that's not because you didn't want to follow along, it's just just emis Ami in my world, you know. And for me, just the fact that I know that I could always call you was was nice, and I just wanted to say thank you. And uh with your help on that day, I've built a team of 10 people globally. We consult restaurants and hospitality venues around the world, help build their dreams. Um, and yeah, so again, I just wanted to say thank you. I really wanted to say thank you, and today's the opportunity for me to say thank you.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Wow, I wasn't prepared for this.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

And this is like literally three years, almost three years.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Thank you, obviously, it doesn't cover it, but uh I want to take this opportunity to say how proud my family and I are of you and what you've achieved. We I've seen your journey from going from the starting from the family business and then involving and starting to fly with your own wings with Hospital Dojo and now seeing what you're doing with your personal brand. But I think from a young age, you understood the industry from a level that I think not a lot of people understand in the hospitality game, and it was never about just designing fit outs and restaurants. What I love about what you're doing with Hospital Dojo now, you're giving people the tools and the resources for them to succeed, and just driving on away here, what we're speaking about was it's not just a transaction, it's about actually giving people the right value because it's the reputation I think is the most important things. And looking back now on our careers in hospitality, because I think growing up, we weren't naturally business savvy. I think, but what we what we grew up was in in a big family where hospitality work, correct?

SPEAKER_02 8:27

That was our way of work, you know? That's our way of work, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

And strength was building relationships 100%. Not from a business perspective, but that's just the way we were raised. And taking those values and putting them into the restaurant business, we realized that the best way to build businesses is by building relationships across any industry. And that's what I tell people all the time. I think being honest, um, you're not looking after people, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

Your network is your net worth, man. And and and I I learned that very quickly when I jumped out the gates of my own. Um, you know, how many people were actually in my corner versus how many people were just quite transactional. And you know, I I had to do a lot of work on myself to show people that hey, like, you know, we're worth being, you know, together and on this because I'm not using you just for the sake of using you, like I actually want to help you too. Um, so I find that you know, you could build up an amazing network with you know hundreds of people, but if it's always transactional, it's always one-sided, no one's gonna really care about you, right? Uh, but if you genuinely, you know, have that other person in mind when something comes across your table, and you know, you don't want anything from it, you just go, Here, bro, you know, I'll I wish you all the best. Take this, take this leak, take, you know, go help out. Or you know what, there's an event on here, or you know, there's a catering gig there, or whatever the case may be, right? If you continuously think like instead of just take, take, take, where you actually give, give, give, I believe, in my in my world, that God will give you 10 times more. You know, amen. So, so yeah, I'm uh, you know, and I and I've seen you how much you you give. You're you're a you're a generous person, uh, you're an amazing human being, where you're continuously if anyone picked up the call and asked something of you, I've never heard you say no in my life. Ever, ever. And that's me knowing you for the past 15 years plus. And uh, that's a trait that a lot of people need alone. You know, you you have a sense of selflessness, um, you have a sense of of giving and being surrounding and just surrounding great people always together. And there's never been a room that I've walked into and I've seen you in, and no one's smiling. Everyone's always smiling. Geez, you agree for my ego? Yeah, no, it's not, it's not, it's not about the ego, bro. It's the truth that we told. And you know, thank you. Sometimes we need to hear these things. Um, and yeah, I I've always looked up to you, Amy. Honestly, I've always looked up to you, and I believe that I believe that there should be more people like you in the world because you help people. God bless you. I don't know if I deserve all of that credit, but you do, bro.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

You do I really appreciate the kind of it means more than realise. I will say one thing though, in all of that, is that I can't be something that I'm not. And I think being honest to yourself is the most important thing in life. I think that's where authenticity is found, that's where happiness is found. And you know, growing up, you know, you're still trying to discover, you know, what we are, who we are, why we do what we do. And a lot of people say find your why. And I think that's the hardest thing for a lot of people. From a young age, I think we just fell into what we did. Because uh hospitality for us, I'll be honest, it's not something we do now. It's who we are. And I can only say this now, looking back on our journey, and people go, Well, what's been the secret to the hospitality business or to the restaurant business? And I look at our family upbringing and I look, my mum's one of 11 kids, and my dad's one of seven kids, so family get-togethers were large, food, laughter, love was always present. And then from a young age, we fell into like a a cafe where we started washing dishes, and then we had an opportunity to work as a server. So they called waiter servers back then, and hey, this is great. We get to wear nice clothes, we don't have wet fingers and you know, feet that felt like wet sponges from the kitchen, and we enjoyed people, and we thought, wow, this is great. We get to enjoy, we get paid to look after people.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

So, where where was your first step into hospitality?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Um, at the age of 13, Joey and I, we, because we didn't come from a I guess a well-off family. Um, so from a young age, we started working, um, washing dishes in a local coffee shop. And Joey and I washed dishes for a couple of years, and then we had an opportunity, like I said, to work at the front, serving people. We had to wear nice clothes. Where was this? In Castle Hill. So we're born and raised in Castle Hill, it was a cafe called Cafe Trope. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

And um Was it near the town center or yeah? It was in Castle Towers.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Castle Towers still there, but it looked a little bit different. Yeah. Now there's a train station there. And um, when we had an opportunity to work at the front, front house, we realized that hey, being around people was very natural. Because at home, mum and dad were always entertaining. You had people over. We always had people over. Every weekend we're at Death and Siddharth's place, grandparents' house. So always around people, we're always cooking and cleaning and eating. And so we took those family values and we put them into that. And that quickly progressed. It was a side thing. We're still at school, Joey and I. After school, we started um running little cafes and restaurants, we took cleaning contracts as well. So everything we did in a hospitality game, Joe and I were together.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

You guys were always and what's the age difference between you and Joey? A year and three months. So you're like Irish twins.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Yeah, we're like twins with one year difference. Yeah, that's it. Joey stayed in the oven for an extra year.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

And then and then so you might want to get one free.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

So wherever Joey went vice versa, yeah. So we we came as a package, yeah. And that was a powerful tool because Joey and I were very similar but also very different. And you knew strengths and weaknesses between each other, so and that became very valuable in in our ladies in the business. But growing up, we didn't realise that hospitality was a career for us, it was just a means to just buy a main thing. Goodbye. Yeah, um, we graduated from school. I always wanted to be an architect, so I went and studied architecture, and Joey did real estate auctioneering because Joey loves the microphone. Joey should be on the show, not me. You need to get you need to get Joey on the show. He's got a great voice.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

We continuously missed each other over the like we've seen each other heaps, uh but we could never line it up. Next time he's in the town.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

And so, yeah, so Joey did real estate. I did um architecture. I never knew. I thought Joey became a chef. I had no idea that he loves cooking.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Joe Joey's still great in the kitchen. Yeah. I just remember him from uh Barbara Scotty that he was in the kitchen. He was, yeah, not trained, but yeah. He just I thought he was actually the chef. I genuinely thought he went and studied hospitality. Just to learn because we had to.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

If a chef doesn't rock up, who's someone's got to do it.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Crazy. So he studied auctioneering. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

And you were in Joey wanted to be an auctioneer or a race caller, because Bobby's a jockey. He races horses, right? Um, so he wanted to be something that with a mic. So we started during the day for many years and ran restaurants at night for other people. And then I got to a point where one of Moona's friends, our sister, had this cafe, a rundown cafe in the old biscuit factory, the old Arnuts factory in North Strathfield. And they they wanted out. So Moona goes, let's go have a look at it. We went down and it was Ghost Town back then. North Strathfield, there was nothing down there, just the Arnnets headquarters. And the ironic part about all of this, mum and dad worked in the Arnets factory when they first came to Australia. Right. And so it's kind of like a bit of a full circle moment for you guys. We looked at it and go, There's not much happening in the area. Joey was running our cousin's cafe at the time up at Tugra. He came down and had a look at it, goes, It's too quiet for me. Yeah. He's used to the action. Anyway, so we sat down with the management, they they told us about their plans in the area, and we're going, all right, this could be something. We could build something for ourselves rather than we've been doing for other people for many years. And we thought what year was this, 20, like we're celebrating our 20th anniversary of Barber Scotty. So in 2006. Yeah. So I'm yeah, I'm 42. We took over Barber Scotty when I was 21.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

So 21 years, sorry, we're celebrating 21 years. 21 years. Yeah. So 21 years.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Oh no. So that would be 20. Yeah. You can do the math.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:43

21 years, 2007.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

So it's been a journey. I was just starting high school then. Incredible.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

And so we took over Barber Scotty. Um, mum worked in a kitchen by herself, and Joey and I were on a coffee machine. And we just started from there. Every customer mattered, I remember, because there was no customers. So we could count them on one hand how many customers were. We knew everyone by name. But we made sure everyone that came in, I remember the feeling like they mattered so much to us. When you have nothing, every single, every moment matters. So we made sure everyone that came fell in love with us. Yeah. We gave them, we ran it like a like a restaurant. Yeah. But we did some crazy things. Joe and I would be up on the bar pouring coffees. And not because from a business perspective, but Joey and I, like, we're crazy, right? Like when it comes to hospitality and always entertaining people at home. Right? And so we took those values, as I mentioned earlier, and we put them into the business. And slowly, slowly we built the business. And now Barber Scotty is a production of we've got like 20 staff there. And we never thought it would become like this. And but it became a stepping stone for lots of rather exciting things, which we'll tap into later.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

So so Barber Scotty, and then you guys got the taste of running your own business then.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Fast forward 20 years now, 21 years now, you've had multiple concepts. You've done partnerships with some of the biggest brands in in the world, not just Australia. From the F1, Harvey Norman, uh, geez, uh like Lamborghini. Lamborghini, Quantas, like how did you you know one one thing for me that always sort of eye-fathomed and and was like, this is amazing is how you understood marketing, communications, and public relations.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

The truth is we didn't. We didn't understand any of that. We didn't even understand business. But when you're thrown in a deep end, you're learning as you go. I think the turning point was when we really understood what our strengths were, even as a family. Because I come from a family where we're all alphas, the men and the women. From my sister, to my mum, to my brothers, my nephews and nieces, like we're all strong characters, right? But once you understand that, hey, there's a diversity in talent and we we work to those strengths, everything changed. The turning point for me was when my world of architecture and hospitality came together with this little side project called Knaffir.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

I'll never forget, you asked me for mixing uh uh the whisks to use them as lights. Yeah. I had to find you whisks. And I remember you came, you you gave me this crazy idea you said we need an oven that's quicker than a combi oven for for your Knaff in. And I'll never forget we're in a test kitchen in Newington where in Sydney Comcater, wasn't it? Comcater, yeah. And with the Lincoln ovens, and I never forget that in the in the oven itself, and we had to transfer from the combi to the conveyor oven, we had to try replicate what would happen with the steam, and then you came up with this crazy idea of just spraying the love juice on the graphics. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

So that was my mum's idea with the love juice, by the way. Right. Because the crumbs when we were putting through the oven was was coming off. Yeah. And that came at that came at a later stage where yeah, there's a lot of learning. But for those who don't know, like how these two worlds came together, when I studied architecture, which is down the road from here, there was a case study. I think I did like six years at uni just to take one case study away where architects were transforming shipping containers into apartments for living. Right. And this was happening across the world. I'm talking many years ago now, and this was happening in Tokyo, Berlin, New York, and I'm going, oh my God, this is incredible what you can do with a shipping container. And I knew that there was containers around the world that were just sitting there dormant and no one was doing anything with them. So from that point on, I looked at it as a shipping container as a blank canvas to create something. Years went on, and obviously we fell into the hospitality business, restaurants and cafes. And it wasn't until Shishaba came along in Crawdon Park where we started experimenting with a lot of recipes that we grew up on. Because the restaurant was a fusion, fusion of like modern Middle Eastern with kind of that New York funky influence. And I started playing around with some of my mum's dishes, the Shish Barak, which is the lamb and pine nut dumplings, which I still got to do something with one day. So there's two signature dishes at the restaurant. One of them was the dumplings, and the other one was my mum's canafe. And the way the canafe that we grew up on was not the traditional version. My mum did this kind of lighter, creamy version in Arabic. We call it the knafe. Yeah. Like the fake knafe. It's more like a creme brulee. Yeah. For those who don't know the texture. It's light, thin, crispy on top, it's got this. Using creamy cheesy center. But I created the whole experience around it. We served it with a Moroccan tea. It was beautiful. Simple, but beautiful. And it and it went from there. The cafe started getting a lot of attention. And then it got to a point where we couldn't keep it.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

And that was like 2012. Yeah. 2013. Yeah, no, yeah. 2011. 2011, 12, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

That was before Instagram. Yeah. Just like Instagram was just starting at 2013. That's right. I was still getting used to Facebook. Yeah, 2012, 2013. I'm a late, I'm a late adopter. Yeah. You know, on social media.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

And then it got to a point where we couldn't keep up with the canafe at the restaurant. We started doing a lot of takeaway. And I'll give people like these ceramic plates that we had. And I go, if you can just bring the plate back whenever you can. How many plates went missing, Eric? Most of them. That's why I go, we have to do something. And I got to a point where I remember I go, I've got to do something to alleviate the pressure off the restaurant. We got something special here. I don't know what it is, but we've got to do something. And I think that's when my two worlds collided. And I go, Oh my God, that's what it's been all these years. Knaffir and shipping containers. Yep. And I go, okay, this is crazy, but I knew that's what it was. And it went from there.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

So then from that, you started the Knaffir brand?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yes. And a one product concept. Because up until that point, I think we put all of our experiences into this really simple business model where I knew that the more options you give people, the harder it is.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

So I just want to go into that a little bit more. You build a successful business, a global brand, off one product with no variation. Correct. I didn't know it was a global brand at that time. I didn't think it's going to reach this. But it has. Off one product. With God's grace. With God's grace. Amen. But just I want, you know, this is something that we've got to hone in on. When we talk about menu engineering and, you know, how many items we should have in the menu and how many supplementary items. You went against all odds and went out the door with one product with no variation. In stats and and and and numbers, that is like absolutely crazy. It's like a unicorn. It is crazy. Right? Like you even look at some of the best patisseries, they've got variations of croissants, they've got different fillings. You literally have one product, no variation. No variation. You I like okay, you might do a little bit of a uh like a suave or something on it, but I've I've never seen you alter that product.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

No, no, I didn't think we never needed to. Right. But I will say something though, to pull off a simple concept, I feel like we put all of our experiences. Joey and I in a family had been in the hospitality game.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Yeah, no, no doubt, no doubt. But what led you to say we're going out with one product? Like what was it? What made you that, you know, what from your learnings in the venues? Yeah, why did you stick your guts and and you know, hold strong to the one product idea?

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Really good question. I will start with the fact that I had a product that there was a strong demand for. So I believed in a product. All I needed to do was get people to try it for the first time. Now, for many years, we never really looked at the hospitality game that we're giving people a product. It was always about hospitality and the experience. Canafa was an opportunity for us to take that experience to another level and show people, hey, just give something from the heart and give them something special and honest. And I think it was a a merge of culture and creativity, passion, and honestly, like a bit delusional. The fact that when I'm just so focused on something, I forget about what's happening in the outer world.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

And I just worked, we work towards that. But that that's something that that's something that um inspires me of you, and I've always seen you do that when you're when you laser focus in on something. You that what you said like actually describes it perfectly, where you get delusional to everything else happening. How do you how do you ground yourself to focus that hard on something and and you you break every single door down in front of you till it works? Like how do you do that? Even though, even though it might fail, right? But you you you do everything in your power to give it your best shot.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

I think one of our strengths is as a family, when we create something, it's always inspired by something strong. And we visualize it. So when the idea of Kinafe came to life, I saw it before it even came. Something tangible. And when I pitched the idea to the to my family, they thought it was crazy. Who thought you were the craziest one? Well, I think everybody did collectively. Yeah. Because I bought, like, started shopping around for the shipping container before I told my family. I because I wanted to put myself in a position where the family couldn't talk me out of it. Because they know I'm the crazy creative one.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

So when I bought the container, um, I reached, well, first thing I reached out to Kerry, our operations manager at the time at the restaurant. I go, I got this crazy idea, and she goes, What now? And I told her about the idea, and she saw it as well, and then we quickly just brainstormed. Started workshopping with her. Yeah. Exactly. And we brought it to life. All the great ideas for Canafee Bakery came together, I guess, in one night. Most of the great ideas. And then started working on it, and then no one knew what was happening behind the scenes, and then bought the container, showed the family, and thought, okay, this is crazy. What have you done? I think six or seven thousand dollars on a rusted old Kermit the Frog green shipping potato. It looked like just nothing. And they thought it was crazy. Then I told them about we're gonna do knafe, and they go, they knew the problem we're having at the restaurant. We couldn't keep up with the demand. So it made sense. Mum got excited because she thought we're gonna do all these Middle Eastern sweets. Because you know, when our mums cook, they don't just cook one thing, it's all about variety. You know, I go, Mum, we're just gonna do knafe. So I think a lot of people found it a little bit crazy at the fact that we're just gonna build the business on one product.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

So when you go down that creative journey when you're creating a concept, yeah, what's you know one thing you do to help pull your ideas together?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

I think a clear vision at first. So we had it we had a stroke, a product that we believed in. Then the next person was okay, well, we had the shipping antenna as the canvas.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

And I always say that to people, like you're always going back to the product, the product, the product, which is amazing. I always tell someone who's starting out, right, that if your products, you know, if the product's not working, then you know, no matter what we do, the product is always going to be the the the failing point. And you need a pressure test the product. Now, for you, you had a testing ground which was in a restaurant. Now, for some people, when they're starting out, they don't really have a testing ground. So I say the cheapest testing ground for you is to a market store. Absolutely. Just go to a market store or a pop-up. Or yeah, pop-up somewhere. Like, but even like the cheapest thing is just go to a market store, set up, try sell your product. And if you can't sell your product through a market store, nine times out of ten, you're probably not going to sell your product in an inline store.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

You need a good product to start. Exactly. But that's only 50%. That's 50%, but it's a strong 50%. It's a base point. It's a starting point. It's a baseline.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

And I find that when people come up with a concept first and product later, that's where that's where they lose real they lose real focus because if you're not strong, if you if you if you're not headstrong on the product and the the the baseline of the product, you can't engineer the entire concept around it. Where for you, you had this amazing product, so then you were able to engineer this entire container around the product. Everything that you do, every movement that you make is literally around that product.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Correct. We took a dish that everyone knew. Kanafe is probably the most symbolic dessert of the Middle East. Everyone knows it, everyone has it, everyone knows how it should taste like. Everyone's got their own opinion on it. Absolutely. And so we took something and then we really pulled it apart in a way where traditionally, when you walk into a sweet shop and you get canafe, it's already been made. And if you're lucky, they might heat it up in a microwave or might be sitting there on a burner and they'll cut it. We wanted to turn one product into a show, literally. A show. We call it food theatre now. And so as the concept started to evolve, like I said in this one night, we just started brainstorming concepts and ideas and how this is going to come together. It was a late-night dessert concept, and we knew that Joey and I were big on experience and hospitality, so obviously the song and dance was a big part of that. But Joey took that to another level. Um, Joey's the experienced guy, by the way. Like what Joey can do with people is just absolutely phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

I'd have Knaff would not be where it is now if it wasn't for when I look at when I look at Joey, and this is not, you know, this is saying it in the nicest way possible, and me giving him the utmost respect. I see him as a showman in the middle of the circus. Oh, he is like the orchestrator of like he's a maestro. He'll hold he's a maestro, he'll hold the staff and he'll lead everyone with his magic wand. You know, that's a high standard. Yeah. For the way people should be. And he just brings a different level of energy. Like you like you're you're around this guy, and his energy is like, he's he's there.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Even when he's down, bro, he's like he's he gives from somewhere deep that it's unmatched, you know, and he sets a really high standard for hospitality, and so it's been a blessing to learn and to be inspired by Joey. And I don't think he realized the impact that he had on people. People come up to me and they go, Your brother changed my life. I believe you. All the time.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

So he's got it, he's got a gift. Yeah, but even like the like, so for those of you that have never seen Knaffe Bakery before, it's it's amazing. You can just I'll describe it, but it's an amazing shipping container. That it's for me, it was like a traveling circus. Honestly, it was a Middle Eastern traveling circus where we showed you the best acts that we had, right? And the activations that you would do to some dormant areas, to restaurant openings, to PR launches, the fact that you could bring culture, theatre, and food all together in one place was that was enlightening, you know. Like when when I was younger, and a date night would be we're going to the cat Knaffer food truck, the the the shipping container, sorry. People wouldn't know how to describe it, but they'd just meet me at Knaff. Yeah, meet me at Knaffet and we'd go, you know, when you'd pop up, you'd pop up in the most weird of spots, right? So, like before even mobile food vending in New South Wales was a thing, you were finding loopholes to pop up places. I'll never forget.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

It was it was crazy at the beginning because a lot of councils wouldn't know how to deal with us because it's not a food truck because it doesn't have wheels, and it's not a fixed business because every week on a different location. So at the beginning, I would drop in a location, very hidden, mind you. So I think that was part of the the mystery. Right. So councils couldn't find us at the beginning. You'd say like, this is a suburb I'm hitting, but you don't know where. Correct. And then would release the location on a Wednesday and then pop up from Thursday to Sunday in that location. Monday would be gone. So if council, and I don't recommend doing this, but at the beginning, because we didn't know, there was no rule permits for us. So we would do something, and if council did find out, they'd find out on a Monday, go, hey, you've got to move the container. You're already gone. We're already gone. So if if we're sweet by the Friday afternoon, we're good. Yeah. If we don't hear from anyone, but then obviously later on, we became part of you know, writing new legislation for the food truck programs and schemes, and we consulted with some councils as well.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Yeah, and then you started collaborating with councils, like you do all the amazing night markets out west.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Yeah, so yeah, absolutely. Um, and that that's been an incredible journey. Like I think the social impact as well that we've been able to have.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Yeah, but to go from like running away from them and doing it in discreet to like now partnering working alongside them, you know. So as you as you evolved in this space and you used, you know, Knaffit as your voice, I'd say, how did you maintain or you know, how do you attract these partnerships with these global brands like Lamborghini, the F1, like you're talking like heritage brands, you know, like institutional brands. And for you to grow a brand in in such a short time time span and to be able to collaborate on a global stage with them, you know, how did you go about that? What was your what do you think was your big brand break?

SPEAKER_01 35:19

I think we broke a lot of rules with Knaffia about how an FB concept or venue can be operated. And so we never looked at, like I said, we'll never sell in Kanafia, where we're selling an experience. But I think where the beauty was, we was showcasing our culture in a way that hadn't been done before. And I think that was the most magical thing out of everything that we've done is the fact that we'd be able, like when people go, who are you guys? We go, we're Palestinian. They go, You're kidding. I go, No, we're Palestinian. And so the social impact that we've been able to have, um, and the stereotypes that we've broken. So I've got to say, before Kanafair, a lot of Arab men with beards in Sydney or Australia were perceived in had a negative connotation to it. And then when Kanafi came to life and we rocked, we took something so stereotypical and just flipped it. So when you're at Kanafi, you never ever thought about these guys as I'm not gonna say the T-word, but like with that, yeah. You know, we we we we flipped it, and we showed Sydney, Australia, and God willing the world, that hey, Arab men with beards can be cool, they can be sexy, they can be entertaining, they can be cheeky and flirty, and you know, Kanaf is such a flirtatious, cheeky brand brand and fun. Yet you'd never think all these guys have the Arab men with beard. You know, and so I think that stereotype we broke it. And on on the on the back of that, because Canaf is not a subtle brand, it's in your face, and it caught a lot of attention. Um, authenticity, I think what attracted these big brands is that this was so different, they're so unique, they're not trying to be anything like anyone else. Okay, they're so them. And so I think we've been so blessed over the years that people have been businesses and brands have been trying to find ways that, hey, we want to be with people, we want to collaborate with brands that are real and honest. And these guys are having so much fun. How can we be aligned? And I think it touched a lot of different businesses in different ways. Some from a culture perspective, some from a creativity, architecture, entertainment, fashion, lifestyle, travel.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

You were even on the halftime ad for Harvey Norman for the biggest game in Australia.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

That was a that was a game changer for us. That TV commercial.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

I never forget that TV commercial. Like, for people that don't realise, the state of origin is like the Super Bowl of Australia. And this guy's face here was plastered all over the halftime commercial for our biggest Australian retailer showcasing a laptop. I'll never forget it.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

The game changer was when there was a break in the game and it was just one commercial. You know when there's a at halftime, there's multiple commercials? This was a one commercial, so they showcased it obviously during the break, but in the second half, I think it was, there was a break in the game, like one commercial in between a kick, and it was just it was us. And we're there watching the game, and we freaked out because you can't not miss it. No, you can't at halftime people go to get drinks and food, and you know. But it was that one moment, and I think that's when I think the whole of Australia New Canafic. New Canada.

SPEAKER_02 38:37

And then that was early on. That was a few a few years in. Yeah, that was like 20, I'd say like 20 what uh 27, 2016.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

But can I say like I don't I'll say publicly, like, we've got to give a big thank you to to Harvey Norman and HP for that because they're they supported us a lot to showcases though at the time there was a campaign which we got shortlisted in businesses thinking differently. And we were so honored to be a part of that. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

And then from there, you you showed that you could work with with with a national brand, yeah, I believe, and then that just started compounding, yeah. So mind you, we played everything down. Of course, of course. Like there's no there's no doubt, no doubt about it. What do you think led you to that that moment or that connection? Like if there's someone out there who's who's listening and they've got, you know, they've got something like a Knaffit to them, right? Yeah, they've got something that's dominating in their community and they're really just wanting to take that next step. How do they knock on those doors?

SPEAKER_01 39:43

We never knocked on doors, and till now, we still don't knock on doors because we've just been inundated, like all of the all the partnerships that we've done and all the work that we do around the world has always been inbound. So, my best advice would be is not knocking on doors. What we've become really good at is teasing, and that's what I would recommend people is focusing on what we have control over. So people knock on your door. What can we do? What can we bring? What value can we bring to the market?

SPEAKER_02 40:11

So, how does someone get someone to knock on their door? Or how do they so that I'm receptive for a brand to come and knock on my door?

SPEAKER_01 40:17

First, you've got to get excited about something. So, whenever I think I was saying to you earlier on the way here, when we create something now, and even with Canafi, we created something that we all got excited as a family. We were so excited that everyone that we told about got excited about the go, oh my god, I can't wait for this to come to life. And then it did, and they told people, and so it became this flow on effect. So I think you've got to start with something that you get excited about, something that you're driven for and passionate because it's not easy, right? So you've got to get excited because if you're excited, your team gets excited. And you know what happens when your team's excited? Your customers are excited as well. So it starts from you. You got excited and it resonates with people, and people can tell when something's honest, of course. You know, there's a lot of business people out there, but people can feel honesty, and they're not silly. With Knaff here, was I think what people liked about it was so raw and spontaneous. Yeah, where entertainment was such a natural thing. We hired beautiful guys that represented our family. Good values, good family guys, people that loved entertaining, charisma. I talk about this all the time. Charisma, charm, personality, the ability to walk into a room and light it up. None of them had worked in a restaurant business before, but they had character. And that's one thing we can't train. And how'd you go out, like how'd you how'd you pull that talent pool together? What was the secret source? Well, at the beginning, it was hard. It was just Joey and I, and then we had fillings. Yeah. Joey was on a register and I was on the mic. And everything in between was just we had guys that would make the canafe. And people were just distracted with the theatre. And then slowly, slowly, one by one, as the brand grew, we started attracting the right talent. But you got to know what you're looking for. And um, it naturally evolved.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Yeah, then you turned this thing into the bearded bakers. That's right. And you created a brand behind it.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Yeah, because we realized it wasn't even about knafe anymore. We started doing a lot of work that had nothing to do with food. Right. Like it became about food, fashion, lifestyle. We did a lot of collaborations outside the food industry, so we couldn't use the word canafi and everything because they just didn't relate. Everyone goes, everyone started talking about the bearded bakers. So that naturally evolved, if that makes sense. So we started with one thing with canafire, and we didn't dream it was gonna be like this. And so we we grew with the brand, and we're still growing. Like I'm still I'm still learning. Like we're now 10 years on, and I think every year we've said, if it ended tomorrow, we had a good run. And I think we treat every day and every year like that.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Then come back to I remember COVID. Remember in COVID, we 2020, 2021, we had about a I'll never forget this phone call, it was about two and a half hours. I was sitting at home, you were on the road dropping off Knaffit of people, and I had just called you just to check in and see how you were going with things, and I noticed that you were doing deliveries, and for some reason that on that time of that phone, I think that's where you and I really our um our friendship grew in COVID more than anything. Because you know, during COVID and the pandemic in Australia, what people don't realise is we were quite isolated, and I feel sorry for the people in Melbourne because they they had copped at the worst, but our outlet was our businesses, like this was our way that we could mobilize, and it was the first time ever that you had offered Knafer at home, yeah. And I'll never forget the uh the things that you had to try and navigate to get Knafer delivered to people's homes because you were so inundated. I remember you you got a third party delivery partner. You had drivers getting scattered all over the all over the city. Um, and then you even loaded up your own U because you were inundated with orders, and you were driving as far as Hawkesbury. Yeah, the greater Sydney region.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Yeah. But it all started with this crazy idea, and I didn't realize it was going to become like that. One afternoon, I called Kerry and I go, Listen, things were getting really tough in Sydney with the restrictions. At the time when COVID hit, we launched the drive-thru model. Because over the years, when it's bad weather at Kanafe, we don't just shut. You know, so we started getting creative. Okay, what can we do? With sites that allowed us, we launched the drive-thru model. So when it was raining, the boys would get out the brooms and wash people's cars as they're coming through and having fun, right? It was all about just bringing joy. So when COVID hit, we launched the drive-thru model. And that was great at the beginning, but then it got really tough where people couldn't leave the areas. And we felt bad for people to come out, and they started asking us, are we allowed to come out to your area if we're not getting out of the car? So we one afternoon I called Karen. I go, hey, listen, set up an online shop. I'm gonna deliver canafis to people tonight. I I can deliver 50. I'm gonna drop a video. Just she made it happen. I go, I'm gonna deliver 50 canafis. And we did. Yeah. She goes, Oh, she called me crazy. She goes, I don't know if it's gonna work, whatever. Anyway, so we dropped the video and she called me back a few minutes later. She goes, We've got a problem. I go, what? She goes, we sold the 50. I go, great, how's that a problem? She goes, if you're gonna deliver it, you need two days. I go, why? She goes, did you forget how big Sydney was? This is what I mean. Sometimes I'm a little bit delusional. Because I forgot how Sydney how big it is. So we needed four guys, four or five guys to deliver these 50 canafis. But what we knew was there was interest in the deliveries. And obviously that, you know, went to another level. And we realized that there's an opportunity here. So we ended up delivering canafe for a few months. Um we had to get a third-party logistics company. Company. Yeah, I remember. We, you know, at one stage we had, you know, quite a few drivers on the road. And it became what I will say for those that are watching this is that when you're faced with challenges, maybe it's an opportunity to do something that you've never done before. Because I'll be honest, I always said would never do delivery. Because CNAF is an experience-driven brand. Something that I would never do. But when COVID hit, I go, maybe there's an opportunity to do something that we never intended for.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

But you even like continued the experience. I'll never forget it. I I even ordered one just to support, and it came, it came with a box, it came with a card, it came with a thank you message. Like And a smile. And a smile, the person delivering. Like you had the you had those times. Because we had some of our bakers delivering as well. And you had the vacuum sealed, like it was, it was it was it was done. It was done amazing. And I find that I find that where people tend to struggle is when they when they face adversity, they don't know how to deal outside their norm. And exactly what you said is it's okay to go out of your comfort zone because you have a base standard to go of. What's the worst thing that's gonna happen? Yeah, you're gonna go back to your base. COVID moved on, and that period went behind us, and then you decided to go overseas.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Well, didn't decide to go overseas. We had what had happened was um the Emirates there was a lot of happening in the Emirates in Dubai and Abu Dhabi, and they were trying to get us out for a while for different events, and just the timing for us wasn't right. We had so much going on in Australia, and we started doing some events in New York, and so we put that to the side. A few years ago, um this opportunity came up in Abu Dhabi, and we go, okay, this is this is the one. And so we took a team of 16 bakers to Abu Dhabi. You flew them all out, flew them all out, and it's crazy, right? Like it was like this rock band on tour. And um, you know, sometimes I look at our lives and what we've done from the outside, and like, oh my god, is this is this us? You know. Um, so we did this event called The Mother of the Nation, Abu Dhabi, and that was a great success. And they extended another 10 days, and from there we started getting a lot of attention in the region. And just one thing led to another. We took on some really cool partnerships, collaborations, some events.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

And being like, did you did you have to change your tone of voice when you went into Abu Dhabi?

unknown 48:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

Yeah, we had to turn down a bit of the dancing, yeah. Yeah, and that was just because the the cultural culture We did what listen, we we stuck true to what who we are because you know, in business in life, there are two ways to go about things. You either become a product of your environment or you make your environment a product of us. They brought us over to do what we do, right? And we did that. Now, obviously, there's cultural elements, and so we just have to tell the boys to dance a little bit less sexy. Yeah. But we still dance. Turn it down. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Did you still put X and O's on the cards? We did, we did everything. You did everything, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Right. That's what we're there to do, and I think that's what made Canafair so real. It's so spontaneous. We never told the boys, the bakers, what to do. Everyone just felt so comfortable within the brand and the business that everyone expressed themselves, and as a unit, it became a family. And I think what people fell in love with with with the bakers was you know, when each one starts their shift and they walk in, and you should see what happens. They're high-fiving, they're hugging and kissing each other. I didn't we didn't tell them to do that. But when you have a group of people that are reliant on values and just want to bring energy, it brings it up. They're doing it for themselves, and the beauty that comes out of that is is is is magical.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

So you're in the currently in the Middle East now, you launched uh a new concept in Lebanon.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Called Bar Baker.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

Yeah, that wasn't meant, it wasn't meant to be Bar Baker. The name. Um, we've been in the Emirates for a couple years now, and we're spending a lot of time in in Lebanon. My sister being probably the greatest advocate of Lebanon. I think you know, tourism Lebanon pay her to advocate for him. Oh, absolutely, I have no doubt. No, she Mona has a great affiliation with Lebanon, and obviously we grew up, we all grew up with Lebanese friends, and um, but yeah, I think Muna was really the one that um drove that. Drove that. Because for many years we would spend our summers in Lebanon. Now that we're based in the Middle East, semi-based, um, we're spending a lot of time in Lebanon, we have a home there. Muna calls me up one day, and a friend of ours wanted to do something in Lebanon. And it started with that, and then Muna goes, what if we do something? And this conversation started about doing this little side thing in Lebanon. Obviously, Lebanon doesn't have the stability because it's been it's gone through so much, but the people there are amazing, the nature is beautiful, the lifestyle is incredible. And so we started with a little side idea, and so we had a we had a location, this little hidden pocket in the Bayer opposite the waterfront in Lebanon, and mind you, a location that everyone talked us out of. Why? Because it was a location that was a has been. It was great back in the days, but in Lebanon, a lot of people follow trends. So it's expected to go into Beirut or to hot spots. We've never been ones to kind of follow trends. I think it's just too risky to follow trends. So we tried it, we create our own one. Why is it risky to follow trends? Because you end up like everybody else. So we thought if it's if you're gonna take a risk, you might as well take a risk and do something that you want to do, not what other people want. So we had this location, but no concept. And started thinking about ideas and concepts. And I remember when we're living in New York, when we did a tour there with Canal Fair, we fell in love with the Italian restaurants in New York City. It resonated with us. Not so much just the product, but the way the waiters made you feel. You'd walk in, and it was such a vibe.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Yeah, the atmosphere. Don't worry, I'll look after you. You gotta get this, you gotta get this. They're carrying three, four plates.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

Hey, how you doing? Yeah. The guys polishing there, they're loud and proud. And it's the way Joey and I were. And I go, Oh my god, the Italian culture in New York is like us. So it always resonated that feeling. We used to always think about it and talk about it. And then that's how the concept of this restaurant came about, this New York Italian bar and restaurant, where the focus wasn't the product. Like everything else, it was always about the hospitality and the experience. And we missed the restaurant days, you know, about having more time with people because Canaf is such a fast-paced business. Our interaction was like 30 seconds with the customer, big turnover. Where the restaurant now we had an opportunity, so it became about hospitality. And so with Bar Baker, we we broke a lot of the rules again about how a waiter can be in Lebanon. With customers, yeah, in Lebanon. And and even global, like we grew up in a time where if you're a waiter back in the days, it was a prestigious job. In Lebanon, being a waiter is You're like semi-looked down upon.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Yeah, I don't want to say that, but No, it's it's fair to say. Like in the Middle East, and we can say this because we come from Middle Eastern culture, yeah, right? Um if I told my grandfather, who's you know here today, and I'd tell him, hey grandfather, I'm gonna become a waiter, he'd look at me and go, What the hell are you doing? Yeah, it's looked down. It's looked down upon. Yeah, culturally, that's just generally how it is. Not to say that it's not that way, but that's how culturally we've always grown up. Um, that it's it's a second-tier or third-tier job. It's a job that you would do not as your full-time gig. It's something if you needed extra money or if you had literally nothing else to do. That's your last resort, right? Or a site thing where you have a full-time job. Mind you though, like my my grandfather loves hospitality. He came in and he started on the back of a truck, so for him it's a bit different. But the realistic, the the sense of it is is that um that's what the Middle East was, is like looked down upon basically.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

If you're a waiter, if you're a waiter. So we wanted to turn the waiter into a performer, into something prestigious, where he was like an icon. So we built the whole concept around the waiters. Wow. And didn't have a menu yet. So am I allowed to challenge something that you said earlier where sometimes you need to start with a product? Go for it. We had we created a concept where the experience came first and then the product. In saying that, there were there are classic New York Italian staples like the spicy vodka and the Melanesian.

SPEAKER_02 54:49

You know, yeah, but sorry, I I only contest that to you because you've proven products in the past. There are people out there that that you're talking about two different things. One is one is Knafit, and the other one's bar baker. Like when you're selling an individual isolated product driven, so like I I find it hard. Like Bar Baker for me can't travel around like Knaffair. Absolutely not, right? And that that for me was very pro the thing that create that allowed bar that allowed Knaffair to go global and be so nimble and be agile was the one product, without a doubt. Where barbaker, for example, you're there, this is where this is the alter ego of it, you're challenging the norm of Lebanon.

unknown 55:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

Watching from the outside in. Yeah. The way reservations are done, the way people come to the venue, the way people interact with the waiters. You're there breaking breaking all barriers. So if in anything, you're creating your service is a byproduct.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

I think the hospitality and a service is the product.

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

That that's for me, is what I see. Yeah. But yeah, go for it. So we had a concept, we had the experience, and we knew that everything around that, that the product needed to be good. Has to be good. Um, but we broke all the trends about, I guess, how a restaurant could be run from the sequencer service. And we even called that sequence of service now our secret service. Um, and it starts from outside of the restaurant. The re the reservation. So up until now, we still take the reservations. Mona, myself, our business partner Joey. People can't believe they're getting this experience over the phone. So people are so excited to come to the restaurant before they're even there. And then the valet experience, how can we enhance the valet experience? Then a bodyguard on the door, then your hostess. So before we even taste the food, there's about four or five touch points for people to fall in love with the restaurant before they even taste the food. And it's the one percenters, that's what I love is doing the things that people think don't matter. That's what gets us excited. Taking every opportunity to create magic. Our waiters, they get on one knee and take your order. We have olive oil on the table, but it doesn't come in a liquid form. We make like a, we call it a scarpeta candle. It's made, it's a candle made from olive oil, chili and garlic. So when we started working on a concept, we were cooking at home a lot, listening to the music, researching about how the Italians migrated to New York City. We literally lived and breathed this era. And so we wanted to really create this immersive experience where it wasn't just about food, music. It was about this complete, it's like a movie scene. And a big inspiration was Mario Carbone from Major Food Group. Inspired me a lot about how they he creates a movie scene in all of his venues. And it was a scene from The Goodfellas when he parks his car at the valet and then walks through the back door. And so I I took these touch points and uh designed it around it. Because we had we had this New York Italian concept. And what can we how can we have some fun with this? From the food, the hospitality, the experience, the music, even from a design perspective, like we have a dining experience that you only need to walk through the kitchen to get to. We have a balcony, and the only way to get in there is through walking through the kitchen. A lot of people still find that crazy. Some people find it exclusive, the women are worried about the hair smelling like garlic.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

And I I I've heard I've heard through the grapevine that some people have been pissed off and upset that they can't get a booking.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

I can't even get a table for my friends now. Like it took a good it took a good six months for the restaurant to really find its feet because it's a new brand for us.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

And I found that you gave opportunity to those to get a table that would normally not get a table, and the guys that would always demand a table, you knocked them back for a bit. Who you've been speaking to? Oh man, I know. I can read it, I can read the room. And that I think that's what you you you know, you created a hype, you created a hype within a hype that people kept on chasing you guys.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

The people that supported us from the very beginning were the ones that we least expected. And the ones you expected, it was like, hey, like, it's so funny, like, especially in Lebanon, a lot of the people that we thought that would that knew us would come support from the beginning waited validation from the fashionistas, if we can call them that. You know, the influencers and so forth. And and it was a big surprise, like it was a big shock to us. And then when the restaurant took off, all the people that we thought would come at the beginning started coming, but they needed validation from the public, the public. So yeah, it's been a a lot of learning actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

And what's one key takeaway you you know you learnt from uh starting a business in in Lebanon?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

Okay, so it's one of our hello, we've done with Canal Fair, we've done events around the world, but launching a fixed business, it's our first international. Um understanding the culture and the mentality is one thing. But I think it's so important that I said it earlier, like you can either become a product of your environment or you can make your environment a product of you. So it's really important that you bring your value to the table. Because if we really uh chased what people wanted in Lebanon, would be like everybody else. We brought we focus on our strength, and I remember having a chat to mum, she goes, just kill them with love. We focus on our strength, which is the hospitality. When we're working on a concept, a lot of people go, like, people are not gonna understand this here. Your way to getting on one knee or sitting next to the guests. They're not gonna accept. But we stuck to it, and this became the talking point. Or when the restaurant turns into like a club, they go, people normally go out to clubs after dinner. So we brought everything into one place.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

So now people will come for a dinner and a show.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:39

Yeah, so no previously people would go to a restaurant in Lebanon and then they go out to a club. Barbaker became the place where you can do everything in one place. And you can have a great dinner, and and it turns into a club where you got a DJ that turns into like a full show. Where the waiters, and it's not even about the DJ anymore or the entertainment. Where a lot of venues in Lebanon are so focused on the singers and the bands, and I don't think even we got a great DJ, DJ Danya. She's she's amazing, she performs every night, but we didn't build it around the entertainment of a musician or a DJ, we built it around the concept which was the full experience, and all these elements coming together.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

That's amazing. And what do you see, you know, your next 10 years look like?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Um ten years ago, I wouldn't have foreseen where we are now. But we take on projects that we get excited about, and then there's really beautiful doors that open up after that. So it's really hard to, especially in the in the FMB game, because there's opportunities arising every day. So where that takes us, we don't know. We never thought we'd be doing business in Beirut, for example. A few years ago, we never thought we'd be in the UAE. So where and where we're gonna be doing business, I can't tell you, but I can tell you that we only take on really exciting projects. And yeah, there's there's a few other interesting ideas that we're working on. Um and if when they come into fruition, great. But we're we're really happy where we're at. Um obviously, with the Australian operations, Paris, Muna's daughter, has really taken things to another level with Barbara Scotty and now Martha's. Um and she obviously embodies everything that the family started with and just taken to another level. Martha's feels like has been around. Yeah, Martha's feels like an institution.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Yeah. Already. After a few months. Yep. And and you find that, you know, she's really understood the community and what they want, and she's listened, she's even listened, she takes on constructive criticism really well. Um, and you know, I'm so proud of her just seeing how how she's been able to develop what she's done together. She inspires us. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

And she raises everyone else around her. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

Now, Ami, for you, uh, I know that you're a you're not a frequent visitor of Sydney anymore. Uh, because you're you know, you're Mr. International at the moment. What's one trend that you've seen overseas that you think needs to stop?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

The trends that are overseas that need to stop? Yeah. Or the trends that are here. Or let's say both. Are we just talking about hospitality? Yeah, I think let's focus on hospitality at the moment. I think um people following trends. So someone creates a really great product or a great concept, and I think there's a lot of people that just copy and pasting. What I'd love to see change is people just creating something authentic in their own right. I'd love to see people creating something that they want to do because they got something to bring to the industry. And I think that's when the industry will start to flourish even further. We went through a period where, and you see a lot of trends, and I'm not going to talk about different products here in Australia, but while I was overseas, I saw some products which just went crazy and everyone is doing it. Now I don't want to say it, but there's been some innovators in that prospect. But we experienced it as well with Canafair. When we launched Canafair, a lot of Canafair ended up on a lot of people's menus because they thought people were coming for this product. What I'd love to see is people kind of creating something that has value because they want to do it, not because it's just a business thing. Because, you know, there's innovators and there's duplicators, and that will always be around. But I think lasting joy and happiness is creating something that you get excited about. A hundred, hundred and fifty percent.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

Now if you could go back to twenty fourteen, what's one piece of advice you'd give yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:59

Something that I Enjoy the ride because it's just it's a roller coaster. Slow down and enjoy the magic moments because we've been so blessed to have the life that we've been given. I would say stop every now and then and be grateful for what God has given you.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:29

The only other person on the podcast that said that is Morgan McLean. Morgan started Bell's Hot Chicken. And he said the exact same thing when I asked him that question. When I looked got him to look back that far. And that's he went and you know, he's done global brand partnerships as well, right? And it's it's that it's that you go on this journey and you go there, and I guess that's why maybe today when I started the podcast, I was quite overwhelmed because I didn't like you sitting there today was like, oh shit, I got to look back for like that split moment, like where the hell did it start? You know? Um, and yeah, we don't do that enough, I think. You don't you don't give you don't give thanks enough, you don't appreciate enough, and we don't stop enough, and things you know go past our sight. So yeah, a thousand percent. I like I you know I totally 150% agree with that. So we're so conscious of just appreciating everything that yeah, we have to be. Yeah, you you know, and how do you how do you how would you do that, Amy though? How would you like know when to stop and just take a break and go, like, this is great? Like now I know that you've worked on yourself over the years and you've come such a long way. How do you take that moment to stop and and and go forward?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:46

When you realize that we're not taking anything with us, what are we doing all this for? Right? I think slowing down and appreciating, but not only that, I think um looking around and look for look at the people that we're doing it for. Our family, that's the legacy. Right? And now your uh congratulations, you gotta thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:15

Yeah, Kings of Leon. Kings of Leon, 100%. Mr.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Leon. But to answer your question, how do you do it? I think the way we live our lives is so fast-paced. And I think I was mentioning to you earlier, or could be uh Jason Barlow, earlier, Martha's. Um, we're we're a product of our habits, right? The good ones and the bad ones. I'm so glad this came up actually, because I did want to talk about it. Our habits shape us, whether we realize it or not, right? The good ones and the bad ones. And many years ago, I remember I looked and I go, I actually researched habits of successful people. What are they doing, you know, that I'm not, you know, because business is one thing, but like, what about the rest of our life? You know, a successful business doesn't make you happy. So I started doing research on habits of successful people that, and it covers faith, which was a lot of the times, if not most of all the times, they all had faith. Waking up early, having good relationships. And then I started looking at my life and I go, okay, where am I going wrong? Obviously, I was close to my faith, but I'll give you a very small example of how I started designing my life. I used to wake up many years ago, and the first thing that I would do was reach for my phone. That would be the first thing. Imagine this, right? You're waking up and grabbing your phone to look at social media. Now we can fool others. We can look, we can have this certain persona in front of others and be a certain way. But you can't lie to yourself. Deep down, you know the kind of person you are. I didn't want to be that person where in people's eyes I was something, but inside I was someone else. That's like living a lie, essentially, right? You're not authentic. So I made a rule for myself. I wake up in the morning now, and before I touch my phone, I did a rule that I pray. I sit up and I'm still waking up and I'm praying, and I just slow my morning right down. And then for a long period, I'd wake up, pray, and then go train. And then I'd come back and I'd have a coffee with mum. Anyone that knows me knows that I don't start my day without having coffee with mum. So imagine this, right? Like, you're waking up early. I started waking up at 5 30. Never thought I could do that, mind you, because we finished late. I've woken up, I've prayed, trained, come home, coffee, breakfast with mum. That half an hour, one hour with mom. We talk about everything. I had all my I never did any meetings before like 10 o'clock, 10 a.m. So I can do all the things that mattered to me. And I would leave home around 10 a.m. every day. And I walk outside the house and I'd I'd look up and I'd go. And this just happened, right? And I go, I already feel like I'm a winner. I'd leave home, already feeling like a winner, and I'd say to myself, whatever I get from this point on, it's just a bonus. And then I start my day as a winner, not chasing, already feeling content. And then I'm meeting people for work meetings and so forth, and everyone that I'm meeting is like you're you're sending out this frequency and energy, and people go, listen, what is it that you're doing or taking to become like this? And it starts with things that you can't actually buy.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:48

And it took me time for this to realize the impact that all these small habits had on me. And then I took it to another level. And I don't know where I read this, but I knew someone did this. Every day I call somebody now that I haven't spoken to a long time. And I go, hey Paul, it's Ami, I just want to say that I love you and I miss you. And I shut the phone. And then he called back. What the hell did you just do to me? You just made my day. Oh, you don't know how much that meant to me. You don't know what I'm going like. I just changed someone's day. And guess what? Guess how that makes me feel? Sometimes I feel actually I'm selfish because I'm chasing that feeling that I'm giving to others. And then you're living your whole day of just this frequency and contentment and fulfillment. And then work becomes just this bonus to everything. But guess what happens with work? People are just now finding ways to work with us because of just these things. We're not chasing. We walk into meetings and we go, sometimes we give advice and support, and we go, like, we're happy if you do like if you don't go with this, but this is what I would do. You know, so we're not chasing business anymore. It's about how can we bring value to people, um, bring value to our lives? And then I think the bonus to that is I think that's where the business flourished because you're not chasing anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:12

And would you say, you know, when you when you made that step change, what did you notice, what did you notice like immediately in your life once you once you made that change with those habits?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

It wasn't an overnight thing, it's like brushing your teeth. If you brush your teeth once, you don't get healthy teeth. Even for a week. And I'm I don't know when it happens, but you I I can guarantee if you brush your teeth every single day, eventually you'll have healthy teeth. Our habits are like that. I don't know when it happens. There's no time, but I guarantee if you have good habits, at some point, don't know, I don't know the time frame. Something's gonna happen. You will have a healthy life.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:59

That's beautiful. I've got a couple quick fire questions that the team's prepared. Uh to help wrap up the podcast with you, Emirsa, not Emir Emsys. I'm saying that again for Pierre, your nephew. Right? Just he told me to say that anyway. Did he? Yeah, he just gave you a bit of a dig. I'm not surprised. I know, just just to just get you get you a bit tingly. He's gonna laugh when he sees this. But anyway, um, so we've got a couple quick questions and we call it quick fire on the pass. Let's do it, baby. All right, there's five questions here, and we're just gonna run through them. I want you to answer these in like the whole five questions under 60 seconds.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:38

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:39

All right. Time is on. What's your favorite dessert to eat? Termiso. What's harder? Perfecting knafe or perfecting your staff rostering?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:49

Staff rostering.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:51

What's a food trend you secretly hope disappears soon?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:55

I saw you.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:57

How many knafes is too many knafers?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:02

Three.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:03

What's the weirdest customer request you've ever had?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:08

Bringing a baker's to an apartment for a hens party?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:12

Ami Oisa, thank you so much for uh joining the podcast. I know that you've inspired so many so far. Um, if you look down the barrel of the camera and if there's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who's starting out, you know, who wants to enter the hospital industry and wants to give it a go, what's one thing you'd leave them with today?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:35

Be honest with yourself, find something that you love doing and just pursue it. Because what can I say? The people that succeed in life are not the ones with the best ideas, they're the ones that follow through with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:48

Amen. Thank you so much, my man. It's been beautiful. God bless. God bless you.