SPEAKER_06 0:00

Pizza's always been open kitchen and it's more open than probably any other server. Keeping that calm is is really hard.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

A Regina I treat them in the best way possible. For me it doesn't exist. There is no screaming.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

When I do some new pizza, first of all I I imagine it how has it to be. The hardest thing is to get the idea and put on plate. Napoli, it's it's life, it's vibes, it's art, music, culture, it's pizza, of course.

SPEAKER_06 0:38

Welcome to the Hospital Dojo podcast. Today we have Matteo Hernandez and Emanuele Riemari Riemma Riem Riema Riemma. What's that translate to? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Riemma?

SPEAKER_06 0:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Nothing. That's a surname.

SPEAKER_06 0:57

Just a surname? What's your name translate to?

SPEAKER_01 1:00

To be honest, I don't know. Actually, my friend today I went for an aircut. He explained what his last name means. I mean he was immortal. He was Antonio D'Ambrosio, my brother. But I never checked what mine means. I think I'll check it out tonight.

SPEAKER_06 1:17

Mine, mine in Arabic, I don't care if you ask me, but I'm just telling you anyway. But mine in Arabic translates to someone that lives life. Ayash. And then you t you break that you Arabic is quite funny because you can break away certain components of a word and you see the fundamentals of the name. So Ayash is someone that lives life. Ayish means life. And they would say to someone, uh they might call someone an ayash, that means someone that gives life. And you see, it means live life, ayash, or give life. And ayash that gives life, they like uh you know, like how someone's called a blacksmith, the person that would call Ayash is a baker. And my great-great-grandfather was actually a baker.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_06 2:15

So they used to that was his name. Because he was a baker, they'd call him Ayash as a nickname. Because Ayash life also translates to bread.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 2:25

In Arabic. So we we translate bread as as life. That's giving life like bread. Well, bread is life. Like you can't live without bread that can be. 100%. Right? And I thought that was very fitting for this podcast. So I thought I just got that in the pits of bread, right? Um, so so yeah, I guess uh I always navigate myself back to you know bakery and pizza because I you know it might be something that I always highlight, but I guess it's uh it's in my veins, and that's where hospitalities just continually come through my life. Like it was in my forefather's genes. Um then my when my grand one of my grandfathers came when my grandfather came to this country, he was in an ice cream truck, and then he was doing kebabs, he had a kebab shop, and then he was running the catering at Luna Park, so it's always been in the catering business. Um, and then my other grandfather was a project manager for the Jordanian army. So I feel like I got both ends of the spectrum there because one's a you know a project manager in in high level of construction, building massive roads from Jordan to Saudi Arabia back in the 70s. Wow, and then the other one's in catering. So it's like okay, I've got the brain of someone in projects, and then I've got the brain of someone who's creative, and then I just pieces together, right? And I guess that's where that's where that's uh stemmed from. So I guess you know that's about me, but enough about me. I want to know more about you, Emanuele. Who the hell are you? Who are you? Fuck are you? You can't you come to Australia, you rock up here, I pick you up from the airport, like yeah. Who are you?

SPEAKER_03 4:08

I'm Emanuele Riema, and I'm from Napoli, and I used to live in Australia and Sydney for four years.

SPEAKER_06 4:18

Someone who doesn't know Napoli or where Napoli is, what is Napoli? Can you define Napoli in one sentence?

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Napoli it's it's life, it's vibes, it's uh connecting people, it's art, music, culture, it it's a lot.

SPEAKER_06 4:37

It's pizza.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

It's pizza, of course. It's pizza, um a lot of stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:45

Okay, so you were born and raised in Napoli?

SPEAKER_03 4:48

I born and raised in Napoli uh uh until I was 19. Then I left to Australia because uh I'm seven I'm the youngest of seven brothers. Well and my first brother lives here since 30 years. So once I finish I I born as a fighter, as a Taekwondo fighter. I was uh ex- Ta Taekwondo Italian player, so I finished uh the sport at the age of 19 and I came to Australia and I started my journey in the pizza industry. I started in Naples for like six months to start to learn the basic and then uh I came here and after a little while I met this guy here, Matteo. Matteo, and uh we used to we used to work together for uh an year and a month.

SPEAKER_06 5:49

How many years?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

One year something because also we as you know, once you arrive here, you always like you can't really decide what you really want to do, but you gotta give priority to your visa. In my occasion back then, we just divided our wages because I had to go to farm. So I moved out of Sydney and I went up to Queensland in Tinkam around Tinkambay in Rainbow Beach to do the farm job. I was chopping wood for 89 days, and I was camping in there, it was very tough, but also an experience that definitely signed me a lot. I did the same with orange in Meldura.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

One month you went to Meldura. I'm part of the season.

SPEAKER_06 6:35

Miljura is a different place to Queensland. You would have felt a bit of Naples there somewhere, a little bit more calories.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

I say I go back to see.

SPEAKER_06 6:46

Yeah, you couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

No, I couldn't do it. Yeah, too tough, like really.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

It's it's it's it's completely it's an experience. It's an experience, but it's very tough. It's not always what you expect. And also what I did back then, you could decide if you could get paid by the owner of the farm, or you could just help a family that has a farm. And what's the difference? If you pay me, you decide when I work. So my three months can even become six, four, five. If you don't pay me, I'm just there, each day counts, and I work for you. But of course you don't pay me.

SPEAKER_06 7:22

So to what does it count for?

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Because if if you don't reach three eight and eight days, you're not eligible for the second visa. So if I if for you pay me, but a day I don't work, like an unpaid leave, I'm not gonna sign another day of work to reach exactly to reach the eight and eight days that I need. But if I used to be called woofing, remember? If you join a family just to support the family in their farm, they count you from Monday till Sunday. So you'd be quicker, but you don't earn anything. That's what I decided to do. So I wasn't getting paid, but I said I need to be fast, three tough months, not getting paid, chopping wood and selling and selling this to people used to go to camping.

SPEAKER_06 8:05

So you you sacrificed your time, three months. You had to fund that on your own accord.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Did they feed you no, no, they was supposed to feed me, but they actually didn't. What they say, sell the wood that you chop every day, the bags and with the money we eat. I was like, okay, that's what is it.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

But the farmer for that was tougher to me. I was like, hmm, you don't understand what type of animal you have in front of me.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Like a bandan on my head.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

I will the guy said, Okay, we give the one that chops the wood. He left me there for three months, man. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

But I made it and I literally the same day I escaped back to Sydney.

SPEAKER_06 8:47

So did they then give you automatically your visa?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah, he sent me the actually my last job. It was he had like a sort of mountain of sort of rubbish collecting everything you will find around. They say, if you build up three pushbikes for my kids, you done I signed you the paper. Last day I was by myself. All my friends were already done.

SPEAKER_06 9:08

You had to build three pushbikes.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yeah, like there is ten bikes out of ten, at least make two. So that was my last job, and I did it because I when I was a kid, I always liked like a little bit of working on those things with my uncle. So I built up these two bikes for the kids. Done. He signed and say goodbye.

SPEAKER_06 9:25

Goodbye, ciao.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

I ran away.

SPEAKER_06 9:28

Do you reckon the bike stayed or do you reckon it fell apart?

SPEAKER_00 9:31

I don't even know if the farm is still there, to be honest. But we were there. My best friends was the dog, only yeah, nice. An experience.

SPEAKER_06 9:42

So you left, you went back to Italy. You said five minutes. No, no, I went back to Italy.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

I came to Sydney, and then and then I started to work in another place. Me and another uh friend of mine, we managed this restaurant for uh about six months, eight months. And then after that, that I was uh I was fired, as I was telling you last night. I went where he was it used to work, and we start to work together.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

But it was fun because both of us young, both of us, we have like a lot of pay, we wanna learn, man. We wanna see like how this works, and we can already see that the method that they use works, it works, it's there, but it's there's no consistency, sort of and to me and to him as well was like love at first sight, yeah, because uh I'll tell you that he said, Look, we are me, you, and the head pizza chef.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

If you do something wrong, I did it. Reverse. So that's a good guy, you know, it's on, it's on, yeah. And then we start this sort of uh team.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

A bond, we create a bond, like let's back each other up because it was tough. It was tough and busy, very busy, no many pizzeria around back then. So like 350-400 pizzas were guaranteed, like so. We need to support each other, and we sort of like sort of to get each other.

SPEAKER_06 11:10

And you're working like a Neapolitan style?

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Yes, yes, yes. And this stuff I I bring it to me also now, and I say to my my team, I say, look guys, you have to do you have to be a team. Don't worry about me. I'm I'm with you, but you know, you guys have to collaborate together for uh one objective. For one goal, yeah, for one goal. For one goal. Yeah. So that's really this is the most important thing in a team.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

I think it's the right philosophy to achieve the goal. And actually, as I said before, I'm lucky because in in my pizzeria now, the boys have this philosophy already, and I think it's the first time that I didn't need to step to tell them that that's the right way. Because they sort of have a mutual respect, they really meant they push a lot, even like when when one of them is off to make sure that the day after is covered. And I really appreciate that, even though I'm still there pushing with them. But between Man and I was the same thing, and man, we we really did a great job, and we always worked worked hard, and even once we like divided our ways, we always stayed in touch and checking on each other.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

And it's hard nowadays to find people like that.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah, and also as I said in the previous podcast, I'm super thankful to him, and I say it aloud because I'm proud of this, because the day that I step out of the traditional way and uh I decided to undertake the way of the contemporary style, I rang him. I said, Manu, listen, I'm not satisfied, it's too repetitive, I'm getting bored, it doesn't stimulate me to do better because I I don't know what is going on. He's giving me a few tips that I still remember saying, start to forget the water, start from the flower, do this, do that, and from there you will see you will explore another world. And since then, like always was like uh phone call, uh, an extra tip, and then you could see, man, I think the product is getting the right level.

SPEAKER_06 13:22

What was one memorable experience between the two of you when you were working back to back? Like, was there one funny shift that you remembered or something happened? I remember.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

Yeah, really? I was uh he was on bench with the head chef there stretching, stretching uh with the head chef that was managing the dog, and I was at uh uh at the time I was at the man. And the head chef, after I was doing a little mess, he said, You Matteo, show him how to stay to the hall. And he he changed us to the to the station to the spot. That's that's I remember. You remember that? Yeah, yeah. It was it was funny, but that now it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

That time it was Yeah, it's tough because you also we really support each other, and you, the one in charge, sort of put us not against, but to prove each other. But for me, always with humble. Like I'm not gonna go look cash or you know let me do it.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

You know, it's really if if someone at external says to two boys, you show him how to do it, I could be uh feeling offended, exactly, and he can be feeling feeling like I'm the better one, exactly. But I wasn't like that. I'm not gonna it was like oh thank god, thank God that there is Mate, you know that it's covered we cover each other.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Never, never never push down. No, man. It's it's not like not just because it was him in general. I always I don't like when someone makes someone feeling uncomfortable. But as I said, we already had our own deal behind the scenes that we need to support each other. And the the head pizza chef is sort of to put not each other against each other, but in a situation where there is work to get done, there is a problem that is happening, but I'm not gonna be the one to tell him that it is not doing well. At the moment I fix the problem, but I will try to make him feel comfortable straight after the shift is finished or straight after the guy is away because the the idea is always to grow together and to share our passion with real respect.

SPEAKER_06 15:33

And at now, now that you you know both of you have been playing in this game for 10 years, no one is perfect, everyone has their hard nights. So sometimes we have a meltdown. How do you deal with that in the middle of service?

SPEAKER_03 15:49

What do you mean? Say again.

SPEAKER_06 15:50

So sometimes in service, yeah, we come up the a pressure point hits, yeah. A fuse just pops. And I always find that the people that can, you know control it in the best way, shape, or form are the ones that really persevere. And the ones that, you know, scream, shout, throw things on the ground, they're the ones that lose it, right? The thing that people don't realize about pizza is pizza's always been a open kitchen, and it's more open than probably any other service anywhere, right? So keeping that keeping that calm is is really hard. Um I know because my family have had many pizzeria, and I've had wood fired pizzarias, it was you know, traditional Neapolitan, double zero, you know, it wasn't anything pushing boundaries, it was just a really good wood fired pizza. Um but our old pizza chef, he was this Egyptian guy, and uh his nickname was Mario, they used to call him Mario. Uh his real name, God knows what his real name was, but he was Mario. No, but he was Mario, you know Mario's Mario, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Like Kenji, Jiro.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

We also used to work on Italy.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

We used to work with this guy, he's Japanese, totally Japanese. I used to work in Naples for four years. You told me about Radis. It's a cartoon. You know why? Because he only speaks Japanese and Napoledan, not Italian, not English.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Like people were not expecting that he he could speak his Neapolitan. And like you will come and try to speak in English, he will give you like some words.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Everything from Napoledon, how he dress, how you talk, how you think. Seriously, he's like adopted in Napoledon.

SPEAKER_06 17:47

Do you have a photo of this guy?

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Yeah, uh, yeah, we can see now wants two pizzeria in uh Kyoto. What's it called? Chirochiro.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

When he played uh when he say Nashimido, he said Nashimido Chiro. Yeah with this ton, you know, no no no man.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Also, how good he was at the oven. Whoa, whoa, a machine, a beautiful, beautiful, so good. He also then went was to in the other place he worked with you with you again, if I remember I used to work also with uh pop up, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

They're on the truck, on the truck, yeah. Remember on the weekends. When we were busy, you he goes like Manu, come tranquil.

SPEAKER_06 18:34

So but would he say that he's telling you to come down as in you so this is what I'm getting at, right? So my chef, the chef that used to run our pass, we had a couple boys, we used to have one one stretching, one topping, and one on the oven. And he was always on the bench uh doing the dockets and stretching the dough, getting it ready, and then he'd pass it down. There was one on the one on the oven and one on the bench, right? And when shit would go down, or when he'd have to remake a pizza, oh I swear, he used to grab the pizza straight out of the oven, right? Grab it and he'd throw it back in on the wood, just like and you'd see it, he'd just grab it and he'd just go, you know, and just you know, crack it, right? And imagine it's it's all open. So what do you what are you gonna do? So what I'm trying to get at is when that used to happen, it used to set not just the two guys on the bench, even the but when I was on the pass, running the pass, I was 16 and I was running the pass, right? 300 seats turning over, and you're running a pass at 16, and you're looking and you're going, you're done.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

And I'm thinking that pizza, bro.

SPEAKER_06 19:54

It's not gonna happen, right? Uh and like so then you know, you just try to cut some. We have Panda the Castle used to just cut the bread and send some more butter to the table, just to be like, you know, we've gotta build it up, right? So, but how do you now how do you find that calmness in chaos?

SPEAKER_01 20:15

But this is an important topic because I think as a leader of the team, you should be the one that keeps the calm team here. How? It's natural, man.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

I think that I think after 10 years the experiences lead you. That's true. Because you can fix a problem easier, you can be on top of you are mature, mature enough to not screaming, even if sometimes you you don't have to do, but it's also it's also about personality.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Like in my opinion, man, this is especially like uh a Regina, what I do, it's man, I treat them like in the best way possible. For me, it it doesn't exist screaming, doing no no no the literally completely zero. I have moments where there is extra pressure, especially I mean when you have phone calls, the service is about to start, you still fix up everything, tear up everything, make sure everything is done properly, make sure you have the the backup, all these things can be tough, but no, there is no screaming uh at all. But it can get a little bit stressful. Yeah, yeah. It can happen if you have like uh another an hard time, but no screaming, especially during service. Uh actually, to be honest with you, at the moment I find service the easiest thing. I swear to God.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

The easiest part of the thing is. It's back uh in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_06 21:50

In what in the prep?

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in my opinion I was telling that that prep screaming and stuff, it depends also what kind of colleagues. Collaborator, you have because there is people that need to be screamed to wake up. There is people that if you scream goes down. I learned this in the last three, four years. And I at the beginning I was telling myself, but I'm not a psychologist. Yeah, but you need to be a little bit But you understand that to be a leader, to be uh on top of a team, you have to be a little bit uh you need to understand each personality and approach them in a different way for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

But as I say, at the moment for me, I have like a great team, they they are very together. Yeah, but if there is, in my opinion, when I see even like when we do meetings and stuff, where I suggest which one, you do your 100% always. Doesn't matter if the one that worked the day before did a 70, you still do 100. Because if everybody try to back each other up and give always the best and do the things properly, the one who decides to cut corners and avoid to do it properly, he will shine himself in actually he will put himself in the dark because he doesn't fit in the team that try to do the things properly. And this is, I think, is the best way. Try to create in an environment where it's based on respect first and together trying to do the things properly. So you easily gonna see who is the one that's the sort of black ship, sort of. But as I said, I I I I really never needed to scream. Never never. Only once, like a few years ago, happened to me that I had that guy that I know what it was going across his mind. And also judging him from his tattoo, that had like a sort of person with a knife on his head that has a tattoo on his hand, by pizza chef after COVID was very difficult to find. So I bought him on board, that type of guy would do like you leave a prep list and do a few things, go on break without even telling you, like go for a walk, coming back, and just I was like, in there we just had uh uh not a nice confrontation, but definitely was no about work. I don't know what he was going to his head, but of course, man, especially in a work environment where I did step back and just try to find the best solution, which was just fire him. And uh back then, maybe we paid him two weeks even just to give in the notice, spend your notice at home, don't even come, I'm happy to pay you, just don't show up.

SPEAKER_06 24:34

And how do you think you know you can train someone to build that culture? Someone asked you now, how do you build the culture in that team? Like the way that you you two came up with that bond. Because there are a lot of people that work and they're quite lonely, right? Yeah, there's a lot of people in this industry that are lonely, it's known. It's not, it's not, you know, we're not saying something that's foreign. It is known. There are a lot of chefs, there are a lot of restaurateurs in the space that even though they have this team, they're very, very, very lonely.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Okay, in my opinion, I can teach you what I know, but it's something that comes from inside you, I think.

SPEAKER_06 25:17

What you but what if somebody doesn't have that inside? No, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

You can you can transfer by um showing him how he needs passion towards what he's doing.

SPEAKER_06 25:32

How do you find okay? How do you find the passion?

SPEAKER_03 25:35

No, man, it's something that's all someone transfer to you or you born like this, or you grow up in your family like this because it's something that comes from family, comes from uh the passion from the kitchen, the the pizza and all the easy things. It comes from my mother. My mother, when uh the the ragu, she goes with love, and if you do uh a little bit more rough, she kills you because she says you turn it with love. Only we only look at it. The magic of the execution. It's like that, man. But also what I say sorry, I say that uh we do food, we make food. People know if that food is made with love or not. 100%. Or if it's poor ingredients and stuff like this being.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

In my opinion, you can teach a lot, you can try to put the person in the right environment, but you need I can't teach you the passion. I can show you something that can make you fell in love with the work, but you need to have the intensity above forming, teaching, showing there is everything there, but the intensity, man. You need to come and push. If you push, if I see that you're there, slowly, slowly give you another task, another task, another task, that give you responsibility. If you feel that I give you the responsibility, then you you become the right chef, the right pizza chef to be there. But for me, for you to allow me to give you the responsibility, you need to have the intensity. And this is important. Don't come there carry on your body, bro. Come there with the energy, happy. Because man, once you spend 40-50 hours a week with the same person, it's a family. If you are the one that is bored, doesn't want to do it, we know.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

We see I say always go and work for Amazon or work for don't don't don't lose time Amazon.

SPEAKER_06 27:36

Amazon or Amazon?

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Amazon, non-Amazon, yeah, because you you lose time with you miss time with your family, you work hard and massive sacrifice. If you don't like it, that's worth it. For the same wage, more or less. You work in the morning and you enjoy your family, friendship, and stuff, you know. Because uh this job it's really it gives you a lot, but it takes a lot too because you need to be really you have to be uh behind that every day for a lot of hours. Yeah, that's my thought.

SPEAKER_06 28:22

How do you find the balance? It takes a lot. You give a lot, it takes a lot. How do you find the balance?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Man, these are big questions. Balance.

SPEAKER_06 28:32

I'll let you answer first. Okay. You shut up. Alright. Can I be shut up and then he answered next?

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Okay, can I can I be completely honest?

SPEAKER_06 28:40

Were he being honest?

SPEAKER_01 28:41

If you really wanna achieve the best on something, you wanna have a balance. Trust me. You're gonna be fully dedicated there. I know you need to be smart and figure out yourself when you need to break a little bit, recharge, and go deeper. That's what I feel. That's otherwise, especially in the kitchen, especially in a new business, especially when there is a product like can be the contemporary pizza, which you can make it happen easier, and that's what lately we've been talking about with the knowledge you can sort of make your life a little bit more relaxed and find a little bit of balance. But in my opinion, man, if you really wanna be the number one, forget about the balance. I know if if I don't know if is the right advice for the people who listen. I don't want to scare people away from hospitality, you can still do your shift, you can even be a part-time, but in my opinion, for where I find myself now, what balance.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

I agree with Matteo, but I'm I'm I'm understanding, I am under I am understanding that you need balance. You need balance because otherwise you you go in burnout easily. I used to be in burnout, but I I wasn't I wasn't um uh recognized that I was in burnout. And also who's gonna who's gonna suffer is the people around you if you don't find that balance. That balance what it means balance. It means that you dedicated um that time for work and you have to be smart to find uh time to people that love you, to yourself. Because if you lose yourself, you can go deeply, deeply, deeply. Maybe you go you don't up, you don't come up anymore upstairs. Uh I don't know English. You don't come back up, I understand. Okay. And but there's to consider that's why I said I agree with Matteo. It depends. I did it a lot, now I'm understanding that that's I do a lot as well. But when I when I'm understanding understanding that I'm doing uh I'm going in burnout, I slow down and I say okay, I can do it tomorrow, slowly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

I don't know because it's completely you go longer. If you completely I I agree with what he's saying, but I found myself at the moment there dealing with multiple things. In the beginning, it's like even the day before you think about like what I'm gonna do tomorrow when you know that your agenda is completely full. You start to freak out, but then once you handle it, you say, okay, I can do this. Next step. And it's basically at the stage where I feel now, and I'm also I think I'm feeling like I'm hungry that I wanna do a lot. Maybe it's a particular time of my life.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Yeah, we'll come the time that you you slow down for sure. I know show down for what you give to the guests like to save some extra time for you. Delegate. Delegate.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Yeah, in my opinion, that's the worst that's like what I'm working on, but still what I see. Oh, it's because I think I have uh a new open pizza. Yeah, but even when I'm away when I'm away. But even when it wasn't mine, no, look, I was always man. Even when I was a Matteo, I used to go on Monday, the restaurant was closed and doing the door, and nobody paid me that day. No, well, it was well appreciated 100%. The guy recognized it 1000%. But it was for me, I I I think I'm a little bit workout, sort of, but I don't know. I think like my work and my personality are one thing. It is can be tidy, I can be like on Sunday night where I'm like, I need to go home. And I go home. But at the moment, I don't know. That's a little bit more look now.

SPEAKER_06 33:07

I I I understand. Um I I know exactly where you're both coming from. I find it in my business. I'll give you an example. The the other night I went and visited my friend, um, and after I came back from his place, I was wide awake. It was like midnight, so I just went on the computer, I did some emails, I got a message from a client at 12.30. Uh, you know, for all our clients that we mentor, we have an open WhatsApp communication, they can message in that chat anytime. And me or my team would, if they're if someone's online, we're gonna look at it and we're gonna respond. It's 12.30. I seen the message from the client, I didn't ignore it. I responded. And I knew that they were at a time where they needed something. I could have easily ignored the message. 12.30 a.m. 12.30 a.m. And they wanted to plan a meeting in the next couple days to catch up on something. And I asked them, is this stressing you out? And they said, Yes, I'm pretty anxious about this. I said, Well, what are you doing now? Okay, well, I'm sitting thinking about this. I said, Okay. Are you in a position to jump on a video call? And I took the call at 1 a.m. and we went for an hour. And we talked through everything that they were going through, right? But you don't do that just for the sake of money. You do that because you care about the other person. Same thing about caring about your work and your passionate. But I knew that morning, the next day, I had looked at my calendar before I committed to that. I knew, okay, I'm gonna push myself beyond my normal schedule. Yeah, so I need to balance my next day. Because my normal self five, six years ago, would be get up at six a.m. and go straight straight into my normal routine. But I knew, hey, I need to get my sleep. Like this is now two o'clock. I finish from the call. When you finish a conversation with someone, it's not like you can go straight to sleep. It took me one hour to put myself into sleep. So 3 a.m. I what my body wakes up at six, and I said, No, I've got to go back to sleep. So I put myself back to sleep, and I had to build that in. So, what I recommend is to any entrepreneur, any founder, anyone opening up their own pizzeria, anyone going on a journey where they're trying to become a professional like you did, and and you're pushing those boundaries, is there's gonna come a point where you need to push and you need to show up. But it's okay to understand your limits. If you can understand your limits, you need to then know how you're gonna counterbalance it. Because what's gonna happen is you're gonna push once, you'll bounce back. Okay, you might feel a bit shit the next day. You're gonna push twice, you're gonna keep pushing, but then there's gonna come a point in time where you're gonna push, and then something bad's really gonna happen that you can't control.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

This morning we were at Barbershop, and he I finished two haircuts, and he was starting to do it, and he was really, you know, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this. I said, Mate, look, this is this is the time for you. Half an hour. See, shut up. That's what he said. Basta man, stop it. Yeah, because also half an hour is. He can be at full. Man, the brain Man, I think I got some issue on the body.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

I'm starting to understand that. Because I what he said actually, then I start to focus on what he said. He said, like, trace online, take these 30 minutes. I go to say hi to a friend of mine, so he went to say hi to this friend while I was getting an haircut, and I tried to sort of empty my brain out of the thinking about the event and everything, and just try to relax and having an aircut with Antonio. But also talking, I think you know what I do, and maybe it's right or wrong. If you tell me Matt T tomorrow at 5 o'clock pm, at 410, I'll be already ready like this. Okay, I don't know why. But I do not expect everybody to follow this because it can be stressful, even with my friends.

SPEAKER_06 37:27

My friend Daniel, my friend Daniel Dobbers, you know the chef Dobbins?

SPEAKER_03 37:30

Taming management.

SPEAKER_06 37:31

Yeah, my friend Daniel Dobbers. No, but what what he suffers is the same thing that my friend Daniel suffers, and it's an undisclosed, it's actually anxiety in the back of your brain. No, no, no, no, no. Seriously, seriously. That's all right. You've got to be aware of this, right? And I'm teaching you something now. If you find yourself at a point of a meeting, if you know at 5 p.m. I need to do this, it even happened with you today.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Yeah. I called Ben at 10.

SPEAKER_06 37:59

You called Ben saying, Hey, can I come in at 4:30? Right? And you were just you you are so worried inside of you. This is something that he, you know, now Matei is learning something to do with the thing. So this is therapy, but you have something in you just shut up and listen, okay? You actually suffer, you suffer from a level of anxiousness that you're not even aware of.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Probably, because it doesn't affect like effective. You know when it affects me when I go out for dinner with my girlfriend. Okay, no, no, no, but listen. Because if she's not I like I'd be ready like 45 minutes before are you ready?

SPEAKER_06 38:37

Okay, but listen to me. You're just listening stop avoiding the conversation, right? You're having in your mind, you're having this little spasm because you're like, shit, this is at five o'clock. I need to be make sure that I'm there by five.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 38:58

So you start pushing yourself from midday or fucking nine in you called me at nine in the morning without even realizing that, and you said I called you, no, but you called me, and I can show you. You're anxious about this podcast. Yeah, yeah. So so you you suffer from a level of anxiousness that you're worried that you're not going to deliver on this. The one way to combat this, and I used to suffer from the same thing all the time.

SPEAKER_03 39:29

And what are you shooting? I I used to do, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:32

You know the one way, you know the one way to learn about it? You know the one way to do it is think of the worst case scenario. What is the worst case scenario?

SPEAKER_01 39:46

If I have a 5'10 rather than five, what's the worst case scenario that's gonna happen? Nothing. That's the point. I'm asking you the question. Sorry, I'm asking him the question. What's like most likely nothing for sure? Right. But like an example. What I do, I I must label my watch. Like I always I want to always be on time.

SPEAKER_06 40:03

Okay, do you want to learn something?

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:05

Take off your watch.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

And I got my phone.

SPEAKER_06 40:08

Take off, take off your watch.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

I need to throw my phone away.

SPEAKER_06 40:11

No, but I'm just saying to you, because you're you're pushing yourself to to a point of of tr you're you're it's it's playing in your mind, but you need to you need to actually find your self-belief and your self-worth. This is something for your personal life. Not for your not for your work. On work, works work.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Like if I've got a meeting at actually on work, it's good because I'm always on time.

SPEAKER_06 40:40

I get it, but I'm saying to you, in your personal life, and anyone that suffers this, you've got to draw that line. He told you, work and personal life. And what's the worst thing that's gonna fucking happen? You know what I learned the other day? If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

You can't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_06 41:00

Me, him, we can't stop it. Okay, so the only thing is just breathe.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Yeah, but I like I don't have like stressful moment and I'm just keep saying the same things. I keep reminding me the schedule of things that I do. I I just like an example before where we go, we go back home. There's traffic, it's 3 15, it's at 5, it's in the middle. Well, we know I say we're gonna waste time, we're not gonna be there at five.

SPEAKER_06 41:30

I understand your time management. Anyway, there's a bit of therapy for you today. Okay, you've gone now, now uh we've found out that you have both a beautiful bond.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

100%.

SPEAKER_06 41:42

We'll cut that part of the therapy out of the podcast, Doran. It was just a nice conversation. It was, but um, you both have a beautiful bond, and I had you on the podcast about you know seven or eight months ago. Yeah, you mentioned this lovely gentleman. We're still both pinching ourselves today that you're here. Yeah, man. That's pretty good. And it's amazing um uh that I get to meet you in the flesh, and I'm so proud and glad that I actually got to pick you up from the airport. I felt I felt very pleasure to meet you. You know, it was beautiful. Thank you. And uh you guys are bringing something completely different. I've never ever seen this before. A seven-course pizza degastation. I just thought I'd try to push it about it. Exactly. I want an extra two courses, anyway. So so how did this idea come about?

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Well, it's it's something that I've seen happening in Italy, of course. And as I always say, I my goal is also to elevate the figure of the pizza chef and the way you can deliver the pizza. And I think doing a pizza degustation is one of the best things they could do to actually make it happen and let the people get the idea of pizza in another way and not as like throwing though in the oven.

SPEAKER_06 43:00

What can people expect manually?

SPEAKER_03 43:02

What people can expect we're gonna have fun for sure. So we try to give the people an experience, not just uh dinner and in every course, in every dish will be something a little piece of us because behind this uh this event there is a lot of calls, there is a lot of ideas that it's no it's not easy to organize this stuff, especially one in Italy, one in Australia. Let's let's contact one pm. No, I'm busy, okay. But I'm gonna sleep, I'm tired, okay. Let's see next week. So uh everything started by okay, you wanna come? Let's do this, let's do that. Okay, it's gonna be fun. Uh I try to organise everything, and then

SPEAKER_06 44:18

So it's gonna be individual plated degustation.

SPEAKER_03 44:22

And it's um it's a pensata, no? A pensata come um every everything, every course it's not giving like a puzzle. It's like each each reason. It has that reason, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 44:42

So every course is is well thought out. It's it's planned in the way that it's supposed to happen in the order that uh randomized.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

You start with something with chili, for example, you're gonna be an extent uh an extent, like you don't feel anything like you wouldn't enjoy the yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

You're gonna be not gonna enjoy the the other flavor. So the way we're gonna organize it is also for in that sort of way to going up with intensive uh flavor. I also like the the type of topping, it's like consistency, the type of topping that it's good for the type of pizza base because it's not gonna be all one type of dough.

SPEAKER_06 45:24

And we're lucky that we have so many different collaborators. So we've got Emanuele from Italy, yeah, Naples, we've got our friend here who's born in in Sicily, and then we've got and then we've got and then we've got Freddie, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

We've got Freddie from Lumi Dining and Chef Carl from Leo, that they are both gonna help us to make this happen, especially in the way how we're gonna run the service, because we always work a la carte, so doing a degustation would be a completely different game, and definitely Fed and Carl for them it's quite common, I think, to do it. All the Regina La Pizzeria, even the kitchen side would be a pizzeria for the night. Of course, say for Fabio and Michela, the the guys from the back of us would be there, the same for the front of us. We're all gonna collaborate, we're gonna rearrange the setup to make it happen. I think uh Manuel and myself, we're gonna stay on the contemporary 100%, like back in the days.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

And all the other guys we we also do the rest, but of course we're gonna float around to make sure and every every course, sorry, it's based on uh an ingredient, an important ingredient that comes from my land, so San Marzano, Pomodoro, tomato. So I think we say thanks also to Solania to support to support us for the general.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yeah, they actually did even they they they really helped us to make it happen, and also we are very happy to use their San Marzano because it's actually quite good, and we can't spoil this, but it's one of that for me is the best one I can say it.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

Look, when I do some pizza, some new pizza, I'm actually always in the bed before I get sleep. It's not just a storytelling. And I first of all I imagine it like with the how has it to be. The most the hardest thing is to get the idea and put on plate of for the for the for the way you eat it, for the the way it's gonna taste, the everything. Yeah, so uh San Marzano will be the protagonist. Protagonist?

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Yeah, I think it would be also for the first, maybe the fifth course, be ready. Because we got one ingredient that did 100% you never tried in Australia, and also the way we're gonna work on the San Marzano tomato I can say.

SPEAKER_03 47:59

It would be fun, it would be fun.

SPEAKER_06 48:01

And how many people come into this event?

SPEAKER_01 48:03

I think we are fully booked. Definitely a lot of people from the industry for what I saw from the um reservation system, which makes me happy because uh that means that we're making them curious to see what they're gonna do. Because it's not something common here, never happened, I guess, especially in the set in this way. And I can see that a lot of them, even pizza chefs there we both know, or maybe they know us for socials or whatever. They they go very interested, and I'm I'm very happy for like giving them a chance to to see what is our idea of pizza and our pizza game.

SPEAKER_06 48:42

And it's one night only. One night only. We're not gonna do a seven set uh a second night.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

Maybe I'll I will be back in a year. Once a year we can organize.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Look, for me, he's always welcome. That's for sure, man. For sure. I can't wait to make the door together. Today we did the preferment and everything. Tomorrow morning, we're gonna start very early before the boys come into the kitchen. We're gonna start to do some tests, some stuff to see to make sure that we are ready for Monday. And I'm very excited.

SPEAKER_06 49:16

What's one message that you would love to give to anyone that's listening to this?

SPEAKER_03 49:24

Wow, what a question. This is our story, this is how we like to explain ourselves, how to uh give our experience and um be uh um an example for the young people that want to do a job with uh all of the pressure they have. You know, yeah, I think that just comes from my heart.

SPEAKER_06 49:56

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

And you met that I think real friendship exists and working in hospitality and doing the healthy competition can definitely lead you to achieve the best results. That's what I think, and that's a few.

SPEAKER_06 50:21

Nice. Well, guys, thank you so much uh for coming on the pod. We can't wait to uh be of attendance at the uh at the Degastation. Um I'm happy to, you know, if you want me to sit at the bar, I'm happy to sit at the bar wherever you want to sit me. Um but yeah, I can't wait to be there. I can't wait to see you two in action. We're gonna have so much fun. And everyone that's bought a ticket, congratulations. Anyone that missed out, it's your fault. You gotta tune in for next time. You gotta wait for the MMU and the next event, but you never know. Mateo might do some other events in between. Stay tuned, follow along, and yeah, I'm excited for you, man. This is amazing!

SPEAKER_01 51:05

Hey, you know what? Do you remember what I just said that I have unprovi contact? I think I can't wait to go to sleep so we're gonna go gone.

SPEAKER_06 51:15

That's it, via well, uh, do a message in italiano che vuoi dire?

SPEAKER_03 51:21

Grazie a Matteo per avermi ospitato, per il grande benvenuto che mi avete dato tutti e due insieme! Ieri è stato emozionante, vedervi lì ad aspettarmi. Io che sono ritornato dove tutto è iniziato. Perché qui è tutto iniziato. Dieci anni fa. Poi ritorni per un evento per dieci giorni. Wow, è molto emotional.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

It's ok, non-respond, traslato, è solo: è molto happy and no, non traslate, rispondi in Italia. Rispondi ti sono grato. Sono super grato. Quello che sto facendo per lui è completamente normale. Perché mi viene veramente dal cuore, non possiamo solo sentirci al telefono dopo tutte queste chiamate parlando di pizza e di impasti, finalmente siamo di nuovo vicini. Possiamo spendere un po' di tempo insieme e non solo lavorare.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

È come una relazione d'amore, no, it's like a relationship. Ci vivo that si sentono per telefono, e poi si devono vedere.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

We can't just say, Ma, it's fucking 10.

SPEAKER_03 52:46

I'm gonna kiss you.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

I'm walking on, man. Stop. I'm gonna sleep.

SPEAKER_06 52:52

Obviously, there's been a lot of uh tension in the collaboration for the past couple years.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

Even before the collaboration, we talk a lot.

SPEAKER_06 52:59

We're talking, talking, talking, and it's at it's at a point of fuck this, we need to do it now.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Blooded and see other here. Next time we go to Italy and we go on holiday.

SPEAKER_06 53:09

I'm ready. Listen, I'm happy to bring the podcast to Italy. We'll sit it there, we'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

One, two, and three in Bennett. We sit down like this, this is the beach on the shore. That's it. We'll fly.

SPEAKER_06 53:19

One last question for you, Emanuele, before you sign off. After you finished from Australia, yeah, you flew back to Italy. Yeah, and when you were back to Italy, you started working in pizza again. Yeah. And then you discovered contemporary pizza.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_06 53:37

Who taught you everything that you need to know? Who was your leaders, or where did you work? Was there any famous pizzeria?

SPEAKER_03 53:46

Yeah, uh I went out with my family in a pizzeria because about 2018 in Naples the pizzeria started to become uh the pizzeria that is right now. So more deluxe, you know, premium pizzeria because start of uh searching uh different uh ingredients, uh good ones, uh flavor. And it comes as I as I told you last night, I've been lucky because I found myself in the right uh place at the right time. So I start to work with this uh chef that they used to do chef and then it comes um pizza chef, and then he told me how to respect ingredients on the pizza, and then their knowledge comes from the kitchen because how pizzaioli didn't have this. They all just go pizzaioli for garbage. You don't respect anything, you just cook in the buffy over.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

You just throw the dough in the oven.

SPEAKER_03 54:52

Exactly. And then uh that guy told me how about green ingredients, and then the next experience was about the dough, and then you know, little pieces by pieces, it comes out the the knowledge and they bring me to contemporary pizza.

SPEAKER_06 55:13

And who was where did you work? Did you work at one particular venue that you you know you snapped your fingers and you had a light bulb in your head and you said I've got it.

SPEAKER_03 55:24

Yeah, yeah, where was this? Was uh Pizza Nova in Pozzoli and there used to work uh the number one of 50 Top Pizza right now. I used to work with him for a little time, then uh he opened another pizza shop in another place, and I had to go with him and he called me and said, Do your journey, stay there, and I was the first the head chef uh and then that starts the journey of doing good stuff.

SPEAKER_06 56:02

So he he handed the ranks over to you.

SPEAKER_03 56:04

You thought you were gonna go with him, and he said he said I found another uh fornayo, don't worry, take your chance, well, and I say because I I had had already my choice, I did my choice, but I don't know how to say that to him. And he calls me at nine in the morning, I say, Manuel, I know everything, no worries, and I started. And then I I've been lucky to find people on my journey that give me si give me a lot. I I I think Mike Rafael.

SPEAKER_06 56:36

Yeah, of course. We we spoke we spoke a little bit about luck, okay. I believe in luck, but I also believe in when you work hard and you truly work hard. People say they work hard, but it's it's it's they're working hard in in they think they're working hard, but they're really just working themselves hard. But when you work hard and you really, really start to master your art. Energy just I in in my belief, you know, I believe in a God, I believe in, you know, and I truly believe that things will start doors will start opening for you. If you're really true and you're really honest, things will just they will literally come in front of you. Yeah. Your book is already written, but you need to keep reading the pages. Like, yeah, if you don't, if you stop reading, you can't go to the next chapter. So I truly believe that if you're working hard and you find yourself continuously in a battle every day, you need to keep persevering because one day there's gonna be an opportunity that comes up in front of you. But don't run away from that opportunity. See, sometimes what happens is people they're so blindsided by their day-to-day that they don't see the opportunity that's standing in front of them. Sometimes the opportunity is a thought in your head, it's just sitting there, sitting in the back of your mind, but you never want to action it because you're too scared. But there's a reason why that thought's in your head. There's a reason. So if there's any if there's anyone listening to this podcast, wherever you are in the world, I know we're gonna have listeners from Italy now, and it's gonna be so amazing that we're able to share this to them. If you've got a thought in your head, and it's a dream or it's something that you want to achieve, don't stop, just go do it. What's the worst that can happen? We've said this before, what's the worst that's gonna happen? Nothing. You're gonna go back to what you're doing now anyway. Yeah, right? So take that step, and then you might think you call it luck, but it's not luck. Your pizziolo, when he called you and he said, Don't worry about it, you could have turned around and said, I can't do this, I need to come work with you. You could have went there and just stayed on the footnote, right? Yeah, but you stopped and you took it.

SPEAKER_05 59:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 59:09

So it's you worked hard for that. So it's really important to take that on board and to say, Oh, you know what, I worked hard for this, and it's okay to say I deserve this. And it's okay to feel like you're selfish and say, you know what, this is mine, I deserve it, and I'm gonna take it and I'm gonna run. Because that's the only way. Once you take that and run, that's when you can teach other people on how to take it and run.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

Man, you you gave me it's getting emotional. Good.

SPEAKER_06 59:41

I'm glad. That's the whole point.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

Because it it's the truth, it's the truth, and it's true because it's I think uh it was in the moment uh in that moment there is a line. You you wanna do it, you do it, and to do it, you're gonna push the bundle. It's it's a massive responsibility taking a pizzeria on your shoulders, man. It's not easy.

SPEAKER_06 59:58

Matteo, congratulations for Regina La Pizzeria. Thank you. Something so beautiful. Thanks, something that I'm proud of. We're proud, I'm so proud that something like this venues in Sydney, it's gonna become an institution, it's something that's gonna stay for a very long time, and it's only gonna grow. And I can't wait to see what other things you do in the future. Emanuele, it's a blessing to have you back in Sydney. Sydney's always here for you. Even though it was hard when you were here, now you can see it with the flowers and and flourishing and you're meeting new people. That's on from all the hard work that you've done back home. Um, Australia lets everyone call it home. You're more than welcome to come back here anytime. There's enough space for you here, so don't stress. And I can't wait to see this pizza digestation, something I've never seen before, never heard of, never thought of. Seven courses, amazing, amazing, amazing people behind it. I'm sure it's gonna be a great experience. Michaela, Freddie, thank you for putting this event on and your beautiful sponsors, whoever you're working with as well, uh, alongside this. It's gonna be a great event. It's the first of many. So, congratulations and good luck, and we're here to support you.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:05

Thank you, Paul. Thank you, Paul. Thank you for letting us, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:08

That's it. Ciao.