SPEAKER_02 0:00

Brendan Fong to me is a pure example of what a chef can do if he puts his mind to something. And that is literally chopping and changing cuisines at an executive level.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

And that's crazy, bro. Yeah, some people would say it was stupid or silly. For me, it's more about a challenge. You know, like I've always wanted to challenge myself, make things harder for myself. Not in a bad way, but just to kind of like make it more interesting. You always feel like you're somewhat on. It's a sense of responsibility. I think it's a sense of purpose as well. I would get home from school and then just basically watch TV. Yeah. And it was like Jamie Oliver was on. That was when he was becoming popular, right? And I was like, man, this guy's fucking cool. Like, you know, I want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Brendan Fong. You like that? I don't know why I forgot the D voice. D voice. Brendan Fong. So with uh Chef Brendan Fong. Chef.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Thanks for having me. Thank you for coming to our podcast. Oh, anytime. In our humble studio. That's great. Look at this. It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

We're uh nestled in uh the uh in a suburb of Sydney, and uh we've got a beautiful feature here, nice brick wall, make you feel like you're in a venue.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

It makes it feel like homely a little bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

A bit homely, professional bit of bit of greenery behind you, just make it feel warm.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

That's the whole point, you know. Just uh yeah, just immerse you in our space, and now now you're in now you're in the pod.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Welcome to the pod. Oh, so we got to get a series now? That's like bro, no. Okay, the pod is the pods, we're always on, the pod's always on. Whenever we move, we talk, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

So uh Brendan Brendan Fong to me is a pure example of what a chef can do if he puts his mind to something. And that is literally chopping and changing cuisines at an executive level. And that's crazy, bro.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Yeah, some people would say we're stupid or silly, but it's for me it's more about a challenge, you know. Like I've always wanted to challenge myself in terms of you know, do something new, something that is harder, and you know, make things harder for myself. Not in a bad way, but just to kind of like make it more interesting. So give us a little bit of a rundown. So, Brendan, who are you? Uh well, how do I answer that? I know we got Batman here, uh you need like a history of just like a bit of a background. Where'd you grow up? Who are you? So I grew up in I was born in Melbourne. Yep. Um, and then we moved to it's not that bad, man. Come on. Um, and then we moved to Queensland because my dad was working, he got a like a new job in Queensland. Um and then like we I I grew up in Queensland until I was two year nine in school, and then we moved to Sydney in the year 2000. Melbourne to Queensland, Queensland to Sydney.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

You would it's like you you you traveled the world, mate.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

You had different different people around you all the time. Was it a different environment growing up? Yeah, I mean, being being young, it was okay because like you know, when you're young, you don't really adapt anything, you just yeah, you adapt really quick. So I didn't really notice it that much. The only one I did notice was moving from from um Brisbane to Sydney. Because I I was 16 or 15. You kind of you you're kind of finding yourself and you know what's going on around you. So that was I think that was probably difficult um in terms of settling in Sydney because it's a different like you go from Brisbane, it's really slow, right? Like the pace is the pace of life is slow. I always say this, it's all laid back.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

I always say this about like whenever I work interstate. If you're in Sydney and you work in Sydney, people want everything yesterday. If you want in if you're in Melbourne, people want everything today. If you're in Brisbane, people are happy to wait till next week.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Are you sure next week might be longer?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yeah, no, but generally that's that's that's the vibe that I get, like between like, you know, and it's true, the pace is just like they're just a a step back, and I find that every time that I've ever thought, the the actual thought of going, hey, I want to move to Queensland, it's like I can't fit in.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

Really?

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah, because I I just don't think like the pace that I work at, I won't be able to respect the people and their quality of life and what they want to do.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Like I'd expect like things that they're not normal to. But I think because you like you grew up here, right? Yeah, you grew up in the side. Yeah, I was born and raised in Sydney. So the pace is like something that's always been ingrained. Like you've you're just used to the pace. Yeah, we're just I'm just like, yeah, used to it. So when I go to like a city that's chill out, like if I go on a holiday, it actually takes me like a good two days to like settle in. Really? Yeah, yeah. To just like let go, like, you know, it's it's really hard. Oh man, I'm like relaxed on the plane. You're breaking. As soon as as soon as I'm on the plane, I have that first sip of any alcohol, yeah, which I'll only have one because drinking on a plane is like terrible. Yes, like the the hangover is just like instant.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Um, but then after that, I'll just like when you get to a new city, you just want to do everything. Yeah, that's it. But I just feel like I'm not in like if we do a staycation, yeah. Horrible. Really? It takes me like two days to to settle in. And this is something that I've always wanted to do, like do a staycation, right? Because we've we've never me and my wife have never really done many of them. And I'm like, you know, thinking about okay, let's go to out of New South Wales, like what about Orange? Yeah, or I don't know, down the coast. We've never we've never really done that. It's always been overseas or interstate, going to restaurants.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

My wife, my my wife and I done it in COVID a lot where we went into state, like even in the state.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

And I always found maybe because my work paste was different then, but even now, like with everything online, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Really not sure. Because when I just went to um the States, we weren't on a holiday, we're working, so I didn't really feel like uh you know, I was away. And all my trips recently have always been just work-related, I guess, in fairness. But when it's a holiday, I it really does take me two days to settle in. That's me personally.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Just to like, oh shit, I'm actually on a holiday, I've got to relax. You know, it's hard. Like it's it's when you're working for yourself, it's it's different because you got people that are that you're accountable to other businesses that are relying on you. Um, you know, you even though you have staff that control things, you still need to, you know, manage it in the background. And entrepreneurs and and people, I don't like to call myself entrepreneur, but people that work for themselves and and um have responsibilities like of that level, you always feel like you're somewhat on, and it's something that I've always felt growing up that that that's I've always always always been on. So do you think that's like a sense of responsibility?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah, it's a sense of responsibility. I think it's a sense of purpose as well. Like every time I've always thought of working for somebody, it's like am I losing my sense of purpose?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

And that's me personally. It's it's not it's not anything that um that I recommend to anybody by by any means. I love the fact of working alongside people. Um, and now that it like I work for my clients, like on whoever's got me on retainer and stuff, yeah. Um I feel like I do work for them and and I do have that sense of autonomy with them, but I have that sense of I need to, you know, I need to provide for them as a as a boss. They're like a boss to me. Anyone that's if I'm on retainer for someone, um, I treat them like my superior, and it's been a great change. But um, in fairness, uh yeah, I really feel that going away.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I need two days. That's the final story is I need two days. I need minimum two days to go back. You always book extra two days, I always book like at least three or four because like on the second day by the afternoon, bottle of wine, I'm like, oh, I'm relaxed, and just is like, yeah, fuck finally, man. You know, finally, yeah, where she like she, as soon as you say holiday, she's in the zone.

SPEAKER_06 8:44

She's like the stake before packed up two days, mate.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

We're more planning to go to the States.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

It was only Ben and I supposed to go, and then she goes, I'm on school holiday, so I'm coming. She's a school teacher, and I'm like, Oh yeah, sure, 100%, you know. And it's like, yeah, what is it? Like, we'll we can all share one room. And I'm like, No, we can't. I need two rooms now. So we did the whole thing, and Jess came along, and God bless her.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

If it wasn't for her, the trip wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful because she the planner, she just like she ensured that everything ran smoothly. Yeah, and that's normally me to her on a holiday. I do that for her, but on my work trips, I literally can't go anywhere without her because she's like my life organizer when it comes to that stuff. When you're communicating and making sure that whoever you're networking, you need to be here at this time and plans change and you know, adopting to certain things, and you know, the last thing you want to think about is shit, I need to book a cab from here to there, or I need to get here to there. So she's like my second brain and she's doing all the little things, right? The little things, bro, that add up, like, or if we're transferring hotels, but I need to go shoot somewhere, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

She's like, all good. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

She'll take off, she'll do the transfer, she'll lug the whole luggage in in a car, take it to the other hotel, tip the bellboy, make sure everything's up, all our rooms are sorted. We get back, we literally walk in, Ben walks into his own room, I walk into my room, and everything's set out and done. Yeah, that's awesome. You know, yeah, because like shit, like it's worth it. Yes, you earn your weight in gold.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

You're not only the love of my life, but you've earned the weight in gold. So, no, she's she's been nothing but a blessing in this whole journey. But I digress. You can do a staycation in Australia, it's fucking beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Um, where I recommend go into state, man. Go to Adelaide. I've never been to Adelaide, it's so beautiful. Adelaide is so nice, Adelaide as they call it. Yeah, Adelaide, Adelaide.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

No, Adelaide's nice. Um Melbourne, go to the Mornington Peninsula.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

There's a beautiful place up there called uh it's like a dystopian spring house, man. There's like all these baths, yes, it's amazing. It's not nude like a what do you call it? A Japanese one. Oh on sen. There's no no, not onsen, you're dressed, so it's okay. I had my fair share. I had a I had an onsen experience in Singapore. That was hilarious. I didn't know what an onsen was. That would have been hilarious.

SPEAKER_06 11:16

But staycation, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Definitely do it. I love staycations. Yeah, Australia's a beautiful place. You can actually um get around.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

But yeah, Brendan, so you moved to Sydney?

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah, so we moved to Sydney in the year 2000. Um, that was the year of the Olympics, Sydney Olympics. So it was it was what were your parents doing at the time? So my mum was she we worked in the bank, um and my dad worked uh well, he still does. Uh we're retired, but he works for him part-time. Because you know what's he do? He basically just goes around um constructing the power transformers that like um the big power transformers, the big sites and stuff that that provide cities with energy, yeah. Well, um, so he's been doing that, man, ever since I can remember. Like they both used to be bankers back in Fiji. And then they moved over, they moved over to Melbourne.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

What nationality are you?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

My parents are half Fijian and half Chinese.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Yeah. So it's uh it's a mix. Um it's a it's a different mix. So Fijian, not Fiji Indian, Fijian. No, just Fijian. Okay. Yeah, not not Fijian Indian.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

They're both Fiji Chinese?

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, both. Yeah. So they're both their they're their parents, they're I think my mot my grandfather, well my from my dad's side, they're all Chinese. Yep. So my grandfather's Chinese, my grandmother was Chinese. Um my my my mum's side is a bit more different. Um I think my father was my grandfather on my mum's side is he's Chinese.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

And the my grandmother, she's like half Chinese, half Fijian. More three-quartered. And did they live in Fiji? So they lived in Fiji? Yeah, yeah. So they lived in Fiji and my brother and sister were born there. Well, um, my two eldest were born there. Um siblings were born there. Um, and then they moved to Melbourne. I I actually can't remember. I kind of I don't even know what year it was. Yeah. Um, yeah, and they moved, they moved, like it's just like the normal immigrant family, you know.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Well, so you're Fijian Chinese and they're in banking. And then they came to Australia, went into banking.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Yeah, so they started work the working in the bank as a teller, uh teller, or you know, whatever the case manager or whatever. Um, and then they my dad got this job within in a factory because you know, moving from Fiji, they didn't know what to do. So my mum went into the bank, my my father went into working into a factory, yeah, and then just worked his way up from there.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

And then um in Sydney you immersed yourself. How'd you get into hospitality?

SPEAKER_01 13:53

I you look, I used to come home from school. Um, my parents used to still be at work, and I never wanted to do my homework. Like, I was really terrible at school. Like, not just it's not that I wasn't good at it, I just didn't want to do it. I think it's just called being me being lazy. Yep. Um and then like I would stay home and then not stay home, but I would get home from school and then just basically watch TV. Wow. And it was like Jamie Oliver was on, that was when he was becoming popular, right? Um and then I used to watch his uh I think it was the naked chef or something like that. Yeah. Um and I was like, man, this is fucking cool. And was he wearing like just the apron? That's it. No, no, that not that kind of shit. I was just like, yeah, your parents went home, so I don't know what the fuck you're watching.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Well, that's that's for later on, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

You did that, you did that after. Um, and I I just used to watch watch him, like, I think he was in in a loft in London, and he'd and he he would like ride his scooter and then you know come up the stairs with a bag of like steaks or sausages or something, whatever. And then just like start chopping on the bench and start cooking, and I was like, man, this guy's fucking cool. Yeah, like you know, I want to do that. And I just kept watching, and then it was the you know, the old Australian greats, uh Ian Hewitt's and um was it Huey's Hughie's Kitchen. Huey's Kitchen, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

I used to watch that and then it was always with a Weber, that bloke, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

And then you remember um the midday show that used to be the cooking ready steady court once cooking with with Jeff Jans? No. Oh, so I used to I was never watching I used to on school holidays, that's what I used to watch. It used to be 12 o'clock, the segment come on. I was always working in school holidays from like seven years old. I was lazy, yeah. And then I yeah, I thought that was a cool, um, a cool industry I wanted to get into. And I wanted to do that, and I told like my parents I wanted to be a chef, and they're like, nah, you can't, I don't want you to do that.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

So your family, none of them were in hospitality.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

My one of one of my one of our family members, my members, sorry, one of my family members was uh or still is, and he was a cake decorator. Yeah, and they saw like they always thought that you know he didn't do very well. Yeah, he did his chef's thing, got into the cake industry, and was it's like decorating cakes, like wedding cakes and stuff, and his business never went well. Like he never he would never succeed at his business. And that's what they didn't want for me. As a reference point they worked at about it. Because that's all they knew, right? That's all they knew. Like if you got into this industry, that's all that's gonna happen. You're gonna go for so long, you're not gonna earn that much money, it's a lot of work, and you're gonna be poor. Yeah, right. You're not gonna do well. You're gonna you just end up just like I'm not gonna say, but yeah, but um, and not make anything of yourself. Wow. And they, you know, they always wanted me to do the uni thing, you know, be successful, get an office job, and just go through life doing that. And you know, I had to finish school. So I I I did the school up into year 12, you know, did my HSC, did alright, you know, got it, you know, alright to get by, um to pass, and got got quite a good grade. Um and then I just went and sat on the couch because I didn't want to do I didn't want to study anymore. I didn't want to do anything. And then they were like, you know what? Okay, my mom's like, go and get a job. This this restaurant in Darling Arbor was hiring at the time. And it was the Jordan seafood restaurant down in Harbour side.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

That was like the seafood joint.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Like 2003, I just finished school, yeah, fresh, fresh. Didn't know what didn't know I had never had a job before besides work experience or like working in my uncle's um RSL club, which is you know, being a dishwasher for like a couple of days, not even I did it, probably did it for like two weeks, and that was it. And I thought I knew everything about restaurants, right? Um, so I applied for a job at Jordan's, um and then you know, my mum was like, make sure you wear a suit. I'm like, okay, well, I didn't know. I thought you had to be preference, and this is like back in the day, right? So I walk in wearing this suit, and then the chef just looks at me and just laughs. Not but not in my face. He told me this afterwards, yeah. He goes, You actually wore a suit. Because I didn't know it's the first job, right? You you watch all these TV shows, you think, fuck, I gotta wear a suit. Yeah, uh, and I got the job there as an apprentice. So I started. I think that's why he hired me. Because I remember him saying that. He goes, I it's because you had the suit on. Yeah, 100%. And I was like, okay. Well, that's good. Because you didn't come in rugged chef pants and and like you know, TNs and what's wrong with TNs?

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Nothing's wrong, but I'm just saying, you didn't rock up to a job interview in TNs. You wore your best wedding shoes that you wore you wore out every day. Yeah, that you wore out to your your cousin's weddings and stuff. You you decked out in a suit and you went. Nice what white shirt.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Oh, it was yeah, I think it I think it was white, and it was I guarantee I could picture it now.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Black suit, white shirt, no tie. No, I had a tie. You had a tie.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Yeah. Skinny tie or fat tie? No, it was back in the fat tie. Fat tie. Yeah, yeah. Double Windsor or like single windsor. Right, I didn't even know it. Um it was a tie of some sort. Yeah. No, actually, it was saying the knot. It was a double because the double my brother taught me how to tie that. Okay, yeah. So it's a double windsor knot. Yeah, nice. Because he does IT, he taught me how to tie tie every day. Yeah, nice. Um, yeah, and it was my old formal tie.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Okay. It was purple. Yeah. Oh wow. So you went in with a bit of colour, you like swive?

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Right, you gotta get noticed, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

So yeah, you worked at Jordan's seafood.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Yeah, so when did I Busy venue? Busy venue, it was like 500 seats. Oh, I don't even I don't even know. I was so young. Yeah, but I I all I used to remember is during service at one night you do like 800 covers. Yeah, yeah, it was a 500 seat venue, man. It was huge. Like, and then summertime would come around and demolished now, but yeah. Yeah, like it was like my first kind of eye-opening experience or like I'd never man, I'd never fucking used a deep fryer before. Yeah, for those of you that don't know what Jordan Seafood or where Jordan Seafood was, this precinct called Darling Harbour, which is like you know, off from Circle Key, and it's like a bit of a um tourist precinct where we had an IMAX there, and we had waterfront venues and like a marina. Um, but then now it's going through this whole revamp and that whole harbour side shopping centre has been demolished. Yeah, it's gone. It's gone, it's like flat earth, like it's gone. Like literally. Um the the IMAX just got redone and the W hotels there, and finally, after five years of building, and then sorry, triggered to people, and then the other side apparently is supposed to be demolished, but it's still hasn't was that um the other bay? Cockle bay was supposed to get demolished now. Is it well apparently for many years? There's a demolition clause that has been activated, so like everyone's just hanging on on tooth ends until it gets knocked down, just making their money while they can.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Well, they're just holding on, and everyone's like, Oh, should we like the people aren't reinvesting in their venues there because they don't know when these guys are gonna activate it?

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Yeah, it was no point, like exactly. What are you gonna do? Because they know they're gonna knock it down. That one got knocked down, so yeah, this one's gonna knock down, you know. Um, but yeah, so that's Darling Harbour to just put it in perspective. Continue. Yeah, so I worked there for like um what were we like two years, I think. Okay. Um, and then like the chef was like, you know, you can't stay here. You know, you need to go somewhere else because you're not learn you're not gonna learn anything else here. Wow. Um and like well, that's nice of him, and he was like one of the scariest dudes I've ever worked for. Like he just looked at you, yeah, and you'd be scared. Yeah, like because he was like this he was shrinking, yeah, he was shrinking. So he was this tall dude and he's scary. Like, even today, if if like I get a message or a message on on on like Instagram or Facebook or Facebook because it's not yeah. Facebook from him, I'll still call him chef. Yeah. Right. Like I'll still call him Chef Roy.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Because he's your chef. Yeah. Yeah. And he's not a chef anymore. He's retired.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

But you still call him chef. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Yeah. Because he's so scary. And I actually I have a lot of respect for him because, like, not every not every chef would say, You've worked too long here. You need to go somewhere else. Right. And you need to go, you need to go and learn something different because you're not going to get anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

And now you know you're progressing in this career. And I'm before I'm not jumping the gun here, but I just want to hone in on that that particular pivotal moment in your life. Because that for me is like a milestone. You know, it's your incubation, it's when you're finding yourself as a chef, and you have somebody that's literally giving you a platform to leap off.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

What's that done for you now when you reflect back on that?

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Like, how do you now look at the people around you?

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Do you look at it with the same vision?

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yeah, like the obviously there's some some good chefs you want to keep. Yeah. You don't want to you don't want them to go. Yes. Um, but there are times when you kind of have to just say, mate, you need to go somewhere else. Yeah. Right. I can't do any more for you. Yeah. Or, you know, um you just kind of have to be like, do this, do that. You know, why don't you go speak to this person? Or um, like for instance, you know, there's someone that used to work for a at in where I'm at now, human. Um, and she just sitting down with this person, they wanted to do, they want to progress to the next level, like become a junior Sioux.

SPEAKER_04 23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

And I was like, you know what? As much as I'd love you to stay here and be a junior Sioux here, I don't think that this is the right venue because it's too busy, there's too much stuff, even though you have that experience before, I don't, I don't want to do that to you because it'll it'll be traumatic, right? And I don't want you to go into this role thinking, fuck, people don't listen to me.

SPEAKER_04 24:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Or you know, because I'm a female, they don't, they're not, they they're just gonna disrespect me. They're not gonna do anything I ask them to do. Um, and it's gonna be hard for me to get my message across. So I said, you know what, I'm gonna transfer you to this venue, a smaller venue. It's still under like where I'm at, and I can still kind of teach you and mentor you and help you, and teach you the skills that I look for when training people to become a junior suit, or when I look for when I'm hiring a junior suit. And as a smaller team, you have a much pleasant um kind of time learning rather than learning under stress, making stupid decisions, um, which in the end of the day can make people leave, it can affect the team, um, and it'll affect me. Yep. And then you'll end up you'll end up fucking hating me because I did this to you. Yep. So to answer your question in in in short, yeah, it did. Yep. And it's what I look in, like, I look at that all the time, and I always think about that time when he said that to me and said, you know, you need to, you need you need to come back. And it wasn't because you were you were bad for the venue, he seen more in you and he couldn't provide that for you. Yeah, it was it was because he was like, you need to go and learn other things. Um and he said, if you're gonna go to another venue, stay there for like a year max. Learn all you can in the year, and then move somewhere else. Wow. And he said, only do that while you're an apprentice. Don't do it when when when you're qualified, don't do it because people won't hire you. Let's say you're moving a lot. Yeah. But when you're an apprentice, you can do that because the whole point is in that in that short time of four years. Yeah, that you're meant to be the biggest sponge you can ever be.

SPEAKER_04 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

And absorb all these different techniques, it's absorb how all these different kitchens run, and that and go from like, you know, doing so.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

How many venues did you work out as an apprentice?

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Not many. Jeff Roy. He didn't fucking listen. Sorry, man. No, I like I went, yeah, and then uh because I was there for two years, or almost two years. Yeah, and then where'd you go? And then I went to um the this place in Bondi, um Bondi Beach. It was the Sultan of Brunei's per ex-personal, well, it was the Sultan of Brunei's personal chef. He'd left. He came back to open a restaurant. And I went and worked there because there was a recommendation from Chef Roy, got me the job there, contacted him and said, This guy's, you know, he's gonna come work for you as in the as the third year. Is that scary that you just got the job? The other guy was like, Yeah, you have to get him. Yeah, well, I still had to go through the process and you know do the trial. Um but he was scared of Chef Roy too, okay. This guy was fucking even scarier. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Um and I went there and I I didn't, I don't think I lasted very long, you know, because it it was it was the whole point of I'd been in this place where you work your eight hours, right? You do a night shift or an evening shift, it's fucking busy, right? But you have other people around you to help you, right? And I went to this small place where it was a cafe. Well, it was a cafe during the morning on the weekends, and then it was lunch and dinner during the week. And it was it was a small team, it was only like I think it was only eight people. The kitchen was half the size, if not a quarter of the size. We had to do a lot of things by ourselves, and it was that was the kind of um a different experience to what I was used to. So out of your comfort zone, right? And when you're young, what do you do when you're out of comfort zone? You just leave. You quit. Yeah, um, and I I'd done that quite a bit. Do you think that was a bad decision? No. Because like I wouldn't if if I if I would say that I left all those places, then I probably wouldn't be where I am now. True. Do you know what I mean? Because you you meet different people where you go and different contacts. Um and those people, back then, you know, people, if you there was a lot of chefs back then, right? Not like now. So if you left somewhere and you got another job somewhere else, someone else would fill your spot quite easily. So it didn't really mean that much. Didn't affect that person that much. No, didn't affect their learning that often. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So you so you progressed onto a couple different venues? Yeah, so I I I went to after that, I went to a small supper club, um, which just up the road. Okay. Um, and that was kind of like it was a three-man, four-man team. Wow. And we were working till like, you know, midnight.

SPEAKER_04 29:02

And how was that?

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Oh, it was shit. I fucking hated it. But I but it it would we used to do everything to water. It's so funny, like the polarity of, you know, I've talked to chefs that love small teams and hate big environments. And here you are, you're the type of person that thrives in a big environment. Oh, I like like I like don't get me wrong, I like small teams as well. Yeah, but you I can already tell by your sense is that you you you you thrive in a in a bigger purpose. Like you want, like you, you can handle the volume and handle the pressure and handle the brigade. Yeah, I think I I just like that stress feeling. Yeah, it's really a fucking weird thing to say. Like people will be watching this going, you're a fucking idiot. Yeah. But something about it where it's like let's put it in context.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

How many chefs do you have now in your brigade?

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Uh Hubert, I think, has almost close to 35.

unknown 30:06

Fuck.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

35 chefs, maybe yeah. That's including like I'm I'll include the kitchen hands of that because it's still under that's under your team. Yeah. I think I think it's around 35. It's a big roster, man. I need to actually double check that, but it's a lot. And how many staff are in the venue? At one time. Well, all up, yeah, all up. What's the whole time consist of? Per service, it would be two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve, fourteen.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Fourteen in the kitchen. Yeah. And on the floor?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

You reckon there's like Oh, dude, I can't tell you that. I'd have no idea. No idea. Well, all I know is there's a lot of runners. Yeah. When you don't need them, yeah. And then when you need them, there's not many. There's nothing. It's that that that seems to be the scenario. Yeah. So you you worked in these venues as an apprentice. Yeah. What was your defining moment in your career where you're like, I'm a chef? That's actually a hard question. Um I think it was when I I took I started I started work at the first Hatter restaurant I've ever worked in. And that was um You're right. Yeah, I'm good, bro.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

I'm good, I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

I'm just okay. The first defining moment was when I got a job in a in a Haddad restaurant, right? And this is like I had no idea, man. What a hat was. No, well, I I knew what a hat was, but I never took it that seriously. Like, because I was young. You know, you're you're fucking dickhead when you're young. Especially as a chef, right? You just drink a lot and you go partying. Yeah. Um, so I I it was it was at um Favot on Favot Street. Um Surrey? Yeah, Surrey Hills. Um and that was you know, it was a small team, it was like five of us, and it was dinners, used to be, I think it was only like dinners only for five days, and then lunch and dinner Friday, Saturday. Um and it was working in a small big grade like that, you had to learn fast. Right. And no one like you had to learn by yourself. Yep. Um and that was like I think that was probably the first time I ever experienced getting fucking stitched up. Right. Like I it was I was on the pastry lighter section, the person before me, the person who was leaving, right, just goes, Oh, here's the recipe book, write it down. And she showed me how to do some of it, and some sometimes she didn't give it to you, she goes, write it down. Yeah, because you back then you had to there was no recipe, there's no so it's her book and you transfer it to your book, yeah. And then it's like, okay, how did you do the recipes? Oh, I just made them. I'm like, okay, so do you want to explain how? Oh, we're too busy for that, right? And look, it was back in the day, right? So, like, well no, I hate saying the word back in the day, but it was back then. And when you know, I didn't know any different, and I didn't like I now that look back at it, I was like, fuck, I got stitched up, but I don't really care because you learn, yeah. I learned how to stand on my own two feet, right? And that was the that was that moment where I was like, fuck, I'm actually in this now.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

I've got to deliver this, yeah. And pastries that and larder, larder generally is like one of the first meals that goes out, yeah, and pastries are the last meal that goes out, yeah. So you're the beginning and the end to this fucking dinner, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:44

And then and then in the middle of service, you're the middle fucking two, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're doing you're doing like you know, you got entrees going, you got something in the oven, you're like, fuck it, get it from the oven, get it out, put uh plate it up, put it on the parts, and then because it was it was only like I think it was eight courses or yeah, eight course and a four course. And so like you'd get a mix, but it's very important, and what people tend to forget is the first bite and the last bite always count. And I hate going to a venue when I have the dessert and it's subpar. Oh dude, it pisses me off. Like it it's hard to like it's very important to remember that, guys. Like, you know, you know who said it well, Peter Gunn from Melbourne. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He owns marginites, yeah, hatted restaurants, phenomenal chefs in Collingwood, right? Yes, this guy is like the king and the one that started a pop-up venue. He's the guy that defined the pop-up culture across Australia.

unknown 34:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

He started his restaurants out of a pop-up when pop-ups weren't a thing. Yeah. Take over a restaurant and pop-up. And that's how he started his grassroots. And I looked at his planning of his venue, and when I asked him, What's the most important piece that you would when you plan your venue? He goes, My my larder in my pastry section. Said, Why is that? He goes, because it's the first and the last meal. Yeah. I mean, I think that's that's quite common with chefs, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:20

But they but a lot of operators tend to give pastry the smallest section.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

Oh, I've done it a few times. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

They give them the tightest section, they give them one bench, yeah, and and the smallest piece. And sometimes they when you plan, when you when you fail to plan, then it's very hard to come back from that.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Oh, you can't. You can't, like you can never come back from that. Especially if you give a section or if you give your kitchen the smallest pastry area, man, you're uh you're setting yourself up to fail. Because that people don't realize how much room you actually need for pastry. It's 100%. Yeah, and all their work is done before there's no cooking to order in terms of like um besides cooking some desserts to order, right? It's it's a lot of a lot of plating, a lot of the mise en plus is done before service, so they need the most room to prep. But a lot of a lot of people actually to be fair, a lot of people get that wrong. Yep. Um, but you know, when we when we were working in kitchens, we were always taught, you know, people will always remember the first bite and the last bite. They'll always remember the first course and the second and the last course. They won't remember any they'll they will remember in between, but something that will stay in their minds was dessert was shit. Yeah. Well, that entree was horrible. So if you get a dessert where it's like it's shit, yeah, fuck it pisses me off. Like it's just it's so annoying. Yeah. Um, but you know what? It's life, yeah. I mean, well, I have different tastes to other people. Yeah, so what might be shit to me, fucking can't say the love it. Sorry, I shouldn't say that. But but I get you. You know what I mean? Like you. No, but I think it's the ethos and the principle that people got to learn is the first bite and the last bite is something that you need to control on. So that was your defining moment. Yeah. And when did you see your career really start to elevate? Um it was actually working at Mr. Wong. Um, learning, you know, learning a different quiz. And that was like I'd I'd done I'd worked at, you know, before that, uh, I'd worked at a Japanese restaurant. Um, I'd worked under, I mean, at a in an English restaurant, you know, learning old English, like English cuisine, learning how people, you know, terrines and yeah, terrines. Um, and also working working with under Jeremy Schrode. Um, he was kind of like the kind of guy that was just like, the fish is this good. Just put lemon and a piece of rocket. The late Jeremy Schrode? Yeah. Yeah. Um He was a great chef. Oh man. God rest his soul. You know, back then, back then as a younger chef, you know, you don't realise how good how good they actually are.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

There's something that you could say to Jeremy Schrode today, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Thank you. Really? Yeah. It's just because, like, you know, having that confidence to serve three things on a plate, you know, having and and knowing that it's good. I don't know how he did it. And he was he was so fucking good at it. Fuck, bro. That's like that's deep. Like, yeah, I don't even I never got to meet the guy personally, but like what you just said, I could just literally feel the energy from that. Yeah, that's big. Like, even now, that's how like sometimes that's how I cook, right? Well, see, most of the time that's how I cook. Um, just having just it making it look simple and use celebrating the ingredient. Yep. And you know, the technique. Like he always said, you know, we have that fine dining technique, but that simple bistro style. Yeah in terms of it. Yeah. And it's what it's what people love, right? You know, it looks it looks very simple on a plate, but it's it's fucking hard to do. And having that confidence to be able to serve it, like like the Pierre Kaufman fucking trotter. Yeah, right. Pierre Kaufman came up with that, with you know, sweet, uh, sweetbreads, morels, um and when you look at it, and you see, you know, when you look at the actual dish composed, you're like, fuck, is that it? Like, it's a fucking pig's foot stuffed. So you eat it, and it's the most fucking best thing you've ever fucking eaten. And when he when Jeremy made his version, right, with um with the ginger and shiitake, uh, like like what I do at Hubert, um, and he taught me exactly every step on how to make that fucking thing, right? And you know, we used to make it for for in the restaurant for people, um, and he put on the menu, like he put on a special menu and stuff like that. And you know, back then being young and like kind of not knowing too much about food, but knowing about it, right? And you eat that dish, you're like, fuck. This is this is it. This is a shit. Yeah, this is what it means to cook. The guy used to serve um corned beef with carrots, and uh like a white sauce made with grain mustard, right? It's the best fucking thing ever. And it's three things corned beef, carrot, and a sauce. It's simple, yeah. So to have that confidence and to be able to cook like that, yeah, and he became popular off that, right? Um and how he passed that down to people that work with him and under him, right? That's why I'd say thank you. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

So that like shaped you in regards to your confidence, but Wong's made you.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yeah, I mean, like working working under Marivelle, working in Maribel, or working for Maribel, um and well, because working with Jeremy, that was that but that was with Maryvale as well. And then I got transferred to um to Mr. Wong. I didn't know Jeremy's restaurant was a part of Maryvelle. Yeah, so Bistrode C B D was in the hotel CBD. Oh right, yes. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Wow. Um and that did he have any other venues at the time or just that one? So he he had opened fish shop back then, by the way. Okay, yep. Um, and he still had he still had his own bistroad in Surrey Hills. Yeah, that's what I thought. I thought because he had his own place in Surrey. I didn't know. So, okay, yep, no, I understand. Right. Yeah. And then I got I working at Mr. Wong, it was that was tough. Um, it wasn't easy, you know, going because I, you know, you Bistrode was like you work Monday to Friday, um, lunch and dinner. It was it was a really small team, it was a great team. Um, and then going to this massive restaurant where man, I didn't even know how to use a fucking wok.

SPEAKER_06 42:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

When you were Asian, yeah. Come on, bro, we don't have fucking all these walks. Come on, come on, man. Hey, walkburn is very different in yeah, um, yeah, and then and then like it was it was a team of greats, right? Like there was Dan Hong was there, Jiao, um, Victor Liong. Um, and I I wasn't apprentice with Victor. We were that's when I worked up the road, I worked with Victor. We were apprentices there. Um and you know, these they were heavy hitters, yeah. And like back then they were they were like they were fucking good, yeah. Um still are no, they still are, man. They haven't they've never lost it, yeah, never will. Um and yeah, it was it was intimidating, you know, going into a restaurant where um it just got 16, so it just got us two hats, um, going in as you know, a fucking chef de party. Um it was scary. Uh and then and then working the way up through the ranks um quickly because we had people leaving, um, and then just progressing there, and that's when I saw it kind of I kind of found myself a little bit there and okay, this is the groove I'm gonna I love this fucking busy restaurant. Yeah, um that's your vibe. Yeah, and that's what that's that's where I was like, okay, this is cool. It's great in your career that you you you transcended and you moved around, and I guess Roy gave you that chef Roy sorry gave you that pathway to go, it's okay to move. Just respect your place when you move and know when it's right to move. Yeah. And I guess if there's one key takeaway here, it's if you're working somewhere and you're progressing as a chef, you want to be able to learn as a sponge no matter what level you're at.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

And if you feel at one place you can't take any more, as in you can't learn anymore, hold on a little bit longer, see if there is a little bit more because it might be you in the background.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Like you said, when you were young, what you do, would you fuck off and you leave? Yeah, just hold out there because it might be you. But if you really truly know that hey, I've maxed it and I personally don't think I'm doing anything wrong, then you speak to your your superior about it and you say, Hey, I really don't think there's anything more for me to learn here, then you go and you move on in with confidence. And that's it's great that you've seen so many different styles, and you went from you know, you worked from working seafood grills in an 800-seat venue to a four, you know, a four a four-man run kitchen to being smashed on a pastry and larder section to then learning under someone like Chef Shrood, who taught you an amazing dish, yeah, that you hold on forever and and and you can't give up thinking, and then going into an institution like Wong's and working under you know the amazing Merivale group, and then you found yourself, I guess. Like I'm Brendan Fong. Yeah, I mean look, there was I'm Brendan Fong, motherfucker. To some point, but um I think there was one one moment in you know when working in Wong's, you know, the place was fucking busy. I used to start work, I used to go in early, like I seven used to start at eight, I used to get there at seven. Just because like I wanted to get the prep done, and you were just constantly in the shit, you know, because we were like we were so busy that we just couldn't keep up. How many covers would you do? Man, it was I think back then it was like 200 for lunch, and it was like I think it was like 600 or 500, no, it wouldn't be 600, like I think it was like about four or five hundred for dinner. Wow. Every day, every fucking day, right? And you know, you'd get like all the celebrities and like all come in and it's like whatever. Um but there was one part there, um, when I first started, you know, going from a a a a busy, well, busy-ish kitchen that you know you think you're doing a lot of people, and you come in, you come in to Wong's, and it was that, and you, you know, you're getting overwhelmed because you're doing like going and from 70 people to doing um 600 or 500 people, it's it's a massive shift. Um the place doesn't stop, and then you you know you got a cade for staff meal, you could you're cooking for 60 people again, you know, you're cooking for a restaurant. Um, and there was there, I think there was one point I I used I fucking hated it. Like when I first joined, I couldn't stand it. Like it was like this is not it, this is not for me, right? And then it was like, you know what? That I think a fucking moment clicked when I was like, you know what, you always give up. No, you go through life, or you go when shit gets hard, right? How old were you? Oh, I think it was like 22, no, 23, 24? No, 23. Um, you know. I remember sitting in the other way and I was like, I'm gonna like this is it. I don't want to be a chef anymore. Um I I want to go do something else. Like this is this is too hard. And I was sitting there, I was going like, you know what? Everything when shit gets hard, you just fucking give up. Right? How about you just fucking prove it to yourself and s and stick to it? Stick just stay, just do it. Right? Just don't think about it. Um and just just stick just stick it out. Because you don't know what's gonna happen. How many months were you in the rock? I was like, I think man, it was not even, I think it was a month, okay, maybe a bit longer, two months maybe? Nah, it was longer than that. It was like it was like two or three months. Yeah, and I was just like, you know what? Just fucking stick it out because you don't know what's gonna happen. Right? And then I was like, okay, shut, I'm gonna I'm gonna shut the fuck up. I'm just gonna do the work, and I'm just gonna stick it out, I'm not gonna leave. And then yeah, that that's that's the moment where I was like, you can't give up. You gotta fucking do it. Because what else are you gonna do? Right? I could have done a lot of things when I think about it, but it was like that point where I was like, if you give up now, you're always gonna fucking give up. You're always gonna quit. You need to struggle a little bit, right? Um, and I gave myself that pep talk and I went in, right? And I just got to work. So, like, what came to that decision where you're like, I need to give myself this prep talk? I don't know. What was the environment around you? Was there something that changed? Because, like, you know, under pressure, diamonds prevail, as they say. Yeah, that's where that's how they happen, right? Or they or people give up. Well, exactly. Yeah, but what what was that thing in your life at the time that was like I need to do this? Was there anything in your environment then that was different to when you were in your younger years? Besides the fact that you potentially matured a little bit, but no, like was there a responsibility? Was there something coming up? Was there someone that you liked? Was it were you thinking of the future? I I to be honest, it just came out of nowhere, right? I don't know. I it's hard to think about what happened. Um do you think was it because you surrounded yourself with different calibre of chefs? That could be it. You know, the team back then was was fucking great. Yeah, we had people leaving, um, all the great ones are leaving. Like, this is when um I think Jiao decided Jiao was going over to Hong Kong to open um Holy Fork. No, yeah. Um and it was like I had no I had no intention of you know progressing in that restaurant, uh as in stepping up to be, you know, the next junior, the next senior Sioux even the fucking head chef. Um but it was just that point where I was like, I was because I I think I was just thinking about things um in my like thinking about times in my career where I was like, this is fucking hard.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

I gave up here, I gave up here, I gave up here, I gave up here. Now I'm giving up here. Like you're working in the now you're in one of the best venues and you're fucking giving up here.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Yeah, like and that was a point where I was like, you know what? If you you keep just you just fucking keep giving up, right? You're not gonna give up here. What what are you what else are you gonna fucking do? So what's one piece of advice you give to that chef that's finished his apprenticeship and he's struggling to find his way in the industry? Look, the things might get hard, right? And they will, right? It's not easy. It's hard work, right? But stick it out. Don't give up. If it gets tough, take a bit of a break. Right? Because that's I never I didn't do that. Take a break, reassess, and then come back in a good place, and find a happy place where you like to work, you know. E look, even if it's just a cafe, right? Who fucking cares? You're still cooking. Right? And then you can get back to it. Cook the best fucking eggs you can in your man. Yeah. And then you can go back into going into those had it venues if that's what you want. Or go into that fine dining scene if that's if if that's really what you want. Yeah, sometimes it takes you just gotta you got you gotta take your eyes away from from the prize for a bit to realise a path and how to get there. So funny you said that. Today I was talking to my friend who's um an elite sports coach and uh like a he doesn't coach a team, but people go to him for you know PT and different training methods and stuff. Yeah. And he was telling me a story of someone who was mentoring um who was playing elite soccer, like and he couldn't make it in Europe anyway, and he couldn't make it on anywhere, any club in the East Coast at all. Yeah. And then the kid literally uh went into the gym and the dad was like, Man, you gotta he wanted to leave soccer. And his dad's like, you gotta keep him here, you gotta keep him here, you gotta keep him here. And then my mate was like, mate, I can't force him. If he wants to move on, he wants to move on. Like I can't actually force him.

SPEAKER_03 52:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

And then you know, my mate was like, Man, just let him try something else. Just go out, let try something else. Get your eye off the prize. You're fixating. Get get it off the prize. And he went, the guy went and played played league. Played league for a year. Literally, from like like div one soccer, literally go on either get A-League or like low T Premier League.

SPEAKER_03 52:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:41

And he couldn't make it anywhere in Europe. Went into league for a year, didn't like it. Went back to football, soccer.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

And made it in a first grade team, but it wasn't enough. Then his dad goes, you know what? I don't know what to do anymore. Then the coach was like, Man, just how about you take up a different activity?

SPEAKER_00 53:06

After that, go golfing. Yeah, go go-karting, go do something. Let him trump something else. Let him trump it.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

And they picked up a different activity. And then his dad said to his son, he's like, you know what? I'm gonna start from the West Coast and make my way back to the East Coast. And if no club picks us up from then, I'm walking away.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

We'll walk away from this, and it's not destined to be and give up. You're still playing soccer, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:36

The guy's playing in for in he made it to the A-League in Perth Glory. First club he went to.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

But see, this is the thing. Like that's the story, right? Like, yeah, you he they took their fixation off it. They just relaxed. You just gotta fucking relax. You gotta let it go.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

Don't be so fixated on that's your that's your destiny. Like that particular place isn't maybe not be it. You gotta just take a step back and let life do its thing, and you gotta just let go of it. Like you gotta just trust in trust in your instinct too, you know? And that's what his dad did. He's like, I'm gonna start from here and there.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

Truth be told, the first club he went to on the west coast, he got in.

SPEAKER_00 54:18

He fucking got in. Because in in Sydney, in in the clubs here, it's so hard to to progress because the systems are so locked. Like the competition is the competition is so high. Yeah. It's so high.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

But it's it's always like, you know, I always say this to staff when they leave, right? I said, well, like sometimes when they when they're copying a bullocking.

SPEAKER_04 54:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

So you might not like it, right? But you won't realize what you've learned until you've left. And and that's that's literally what I think that's probably what I thought about when um when I was sitting there and just thinking, fuck, I'm gonna give up. Right, because you don't really know what you've learned when you're in a situation, right? So when you work in a restaurant, in the kitchen, oh yeah, the chefs would tell you, do it this way, do it that way, right? And then someone else comes and do it another way. There's all different ways of to do one thing, right? Like there's what's that saying? There's how many different ways to skin a cat or something like that. Hundred ways to skin a cat. Yeah, that's it. Say it every day. But then, like true salesman says that but you like you don't realize what you've learnt until you leave the venue, and yeah, and then you do it somewhere else. You're like, fuck. Wong's finished, yeah. You progressed, you went on to a couple different venues after that, and then yeah, I moved overseas after Wong's. Wow, where'd you go? So we moved up, we moved over to London. Family or just you? No, me and my wife, well, girlfriend back then, yeah, or partner. Um, and we moved over to London on the premise that we were going to um on the promise that we were gonna open our restaurant. Yeah, so you went to London to potentially open your own venue. Yeah, so we, you know, I had someone here, uh I flew over the door pop-up over there, like just the just the dinner. And they were like, Oh, you know, I've got this place opening first. Um if you help what year was his? No, it's 2016. So he goes, Oh, you know, come over, help me open this, and then we'll focus on your restaurant. Um and it never like three years later, it never ended up happening. I kept I opened, you know, opened things for them, you know, open venues or restaurants um for them.

SPEAKER_02 56:37

You were executive chef at each venue?

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Oh, it's just a chef. Head chef, or yeah. And then the last one was yeah, and then it was like, you know, dangling the carrot, you know, like you know, if you open this for me, we'll we'll we'll do this. Or, you know, if uh you know work, he's gonna open his restaurant first, because there were two chefs in the group, he was gonna open his restaurant, and then you'll get yours. And then it came to a point where it just It was never happening. No, and it was like it was like I could like wait it out because I was getting paid. I could wait it out in London and and do nothing, and or not do nothing, but try and keep planning. I'd planned this place three times, and it just never it just There was always something wrong. Yeah, it just not just always something wrong, there was something someone would change their mind about something, or you know, there's a difference of opinion, and it just never worked. Um and then I was going and then I just got sick of it. But that was three years. Yeah, that was three years. So you stuck it out, you tried. Yeah, so essentially I I took a break for three years. Um and then I went over to whilst uh still working. Yeah. Um and then I was going, I got a job offer to open a place in New York. Wow. And I was oh man, I was super excited for that. Like, you know, New York is a city. You've been you've just recently been to New York. Big Apple, man. Yeah, like it's big city. The energy from the city is just it's fucking wild, man. Like, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. Yeah, yeah. Um and it it was all you know, I'm gonna stop you there. Yeah, I truly believe hospitality operators in Australia, in Sydney, in Melbourne, the way that they need a hustle to make things happen here, if they went with the same grit and the same mentality and went to New York, they would fucking thrive. Yeah, I mean, you think operators would some operators that went from here over there fucking killed it. Well, I'll tell you why. Very simple, it's a numbers game. Yeah, look at the numbers.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

Your staff costs are literally halved, you on charge the taxes, your menu is always plus tax, and your menu is always plus service.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

Yeah, plus you got a tip on top of it, plus well, the tips.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

That's that's that's a different conversation. Yeah. The tips for the host. So that's why your wage is low.

SPEAKER_01 59:10

Like we went to an omikaze in in Jersey, and it was an express omikaze, it was 80 US per person, plus plus. It's an hour, it's like mad. You get there, 80 plus plus, whatever the case may be, then you've got to tip the chef.

SPEAKER_03 59:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

So 80, 80 plus tax, which was like 10% or whatever, plus service charge, which was another 16%, plus you tip the chef. What you tip the chef is what that plus plus ends up to be. So they're at 120, 130 bucks, you got to tip the chef 100 ahead. Yeah, it's 18% of the actual bill. Yeah, so you got you tip the chef for that. Yeah. And then it's like, hold on, man. So I just got hit 120, 240 ahead here. Like, literally. US. US. And I'm like, fuck, bro, you just paid 500 bucks. Literally. Right? But but the thing is, and and and you can make it there, and money's money can be made there because there's less pressure on the operators, you know? And that's where I find that in Australia it's really horrible that we don't have a tipping culture. It's like we have this sense of expectation.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

We don't have a tipping culture. Yeah, you get tips, but it's not a culture. It's not like everyone's expected. It's not a culture. Yeah. We don't have a culture of somebody wants to tip, they'll tip. Yeah. Right? But how many times have you left the venue and you haven't really tipped or you haven't really tipped the right amount? You don't tip, do you tip I tip every time? You're a special person, because not a lot of people do that. I don't think there's many people that can really put their hand up heart, hand on heart, and say I tip 20% everywhere I go. Oh no, I'm not something I'm not saying that I tip 20% every time.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

Okay. But like But that that's like in the States, they're tipping like between anywhere between five to fifteen percent. I've seen all my mates do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

But I'd seen the tip way more than that. I know, but I'm just saying at a minimum, like yeah, that's that's like the bare the bare minimum, right? Yeah, you know, so it's it's weird. That polarity is weird, but yeah, so New York didn't happen. No, so New York didn't happen. I mean, it was it was when COVID first hit, so 2019. 2019. 2020. Yeah, that that era. I can't I can't exactly remember the exact year. Um and then it's a dark year, no, everyone's it's a buried PTSD when I don't want to hear about it. Yeah. So we had like we were in London packing our stuff, like we'd we were we were we were only just like half packed if that, right? The first COVID cases hit in London, and we were like, fuck, we're gonna get out of here, right? And then we thought, okay, our flights are booked in two weeks to from London to New York. We'll just wait wait out till then. And then like what happened? Trump had blocked the border. He'd blocked the border from anyone flying from the UK could not go to um America, couldn't go to the States at all, right? Like, fuck what we're gonna do. And then it's and then once Trump had blocked the border in the in from in the states from the UK, Australia was about to do it. So you're like, so we were like during this whole time, we would wake up like because New York time was like in the afternoon over there, right? So it was it the timing was close. So we'd go to sleep reading the updates from New York, thinking, fuck, we can't go there, we can't do this, we can't do that. Then the afternoon, then later on in in the evening, the UK would would start announcing what the restrictions would be, and they'd be different every day, like something would come up. Well, they'd keep adding on every day, right? So we we'd go to sleep fucking stressed, and then when we'd wake up, the the Australian government would release what their conditions were, yeah. Well, what what what the restrictions would be there, and then we'd be like, fuck, okay, what are we gonna do? So then we contacted the person I was going to work with, and we're like in New York, yeah. In New York. We're like, man, we can't fly in, right? So we're gonna have to go back to Australia. So within 48 hours, we'd packed all our shit, organized shipping from the UK to Australia, all of our equipment, all of our belongings. I had sold all of our furniture, like on the fly to some to like somebody we we used to work with, and he came, he had a van, he came, picked it all up, and then dropped us to the airport. But prior to that, we'd we'd we so we had we had to book flights. So we booked we booked tickets um to fly through Singapore. We checked in 48 hours before, in within that 48 hours, right? We checked the airlines and then we read the the site for Singapore for to Singapore airport. No one was allowed to trans through for transfer through Singapore. We had 24 hours to find a flight. We're like, fuck, what are we gonna do? So we're panicking. Lucky I had booked it through a travel agent. So we like my wife's contacting the travel agent going, this is what's happening, blah blah blah. He's and then they're like, you can fly through with Qantas through um Darwin or through Perth. We checked, no flights. We literally had 24 hours. So I thought, what about Japan? Let's go through Japan. So she looked at Japan Airlines, called the um called the travel agent, look at Japan Airlines, look at A. And that we we just got that flight, and we made it back to Australia. So we thought we were only gonna be in Australia for like three months, and then New York. And then we just go to New York because no one knew how long this COVID thing was, everyone was in the dark, right? We came back to Australia, we'd moved all our stuff back, right? The day we arrived in Australia was the the last that was the day before they announced everyone has to go in a hotel quarantine. So we got to quarantine home, yeah. That's the best, and we were so lucky, like this whole June. Like March? Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

Yeah, because I got married in Feb and I was in Singapore, so I was in the Maldives, yeah, and then went to uh honeymoon in the Maldives in Singapore, and we were in Singapore when the lockdowns in Australia started happening, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

And before our wedding, my best man was like, cancel your fucking cancel your your holiday because shit's gonna get locked down. And I'm like, bro, like like relax, whatever, bro. Like shut up, you know. He's like, and because he's my my mate Josh, he's always like He's always ahead of the game, bro. This point, because he reads, he reads a lot, and he's always like the guy's a night out. So he'll be he'll be like, if we're talking now, his mind's in the US. Like he's he's always like ahead, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

So he always he'll tell you, he'll drop you a line, and then you're like, whatever. And then two weeks later, you're like, fuck Josh. You know, like this one, and then you ask him about something what he did yesterday, he won't even remember. But like the guy's just weird, way ahead. Way ahead, he's like literally way ahead, and that's why we connect because we have that same sort of mindset. But he um he was like, cancel everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

Then my father-in-law was like, nah, you're not going. And I was like, Man, what do I do?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:43

Turn to my dad. Dad's like, go. I was like, all right, dad said, go, I'll go, you know. And uh dad's like, what's the worst thing? You catch a flight black, whatever, we'll fix it up, we'll work it out. Yeah. I was like, all right, thanks, dad. Look, you gave me that assurance. Um, so and I couldn't refund anything, so I was like, bro, I I worked so hard to to get this trip, and it was already paid for and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

Like my wife was working two jobs, I was working two jobs just to make sure that we got the holiday that we wanted, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:15

It's only two weeks, and I was like, no, fuck it, we're gonna go. And you know what?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

If if I'm gonna lose all my money anyway, well, what's gonna happen? We tried, yeah. So we went and went to the mouth dives, and everyone here started getting isolated, and we were scared because we were on an island, but look back at it, we're in the safest place in the world. You know, like there was like the hotel was at 30% occupancy, so it was it was anyways hilarious. I'm digressing, but fuck. Like, I was in Singapore and they were like ready, bro. Oh really?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

Man, they had thermal scanners, yeah, temperature guns at venues, like uh data log sheets, everything that we had in 2021.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:02

They already had it. These guys had it already, and they reckon it's because of SARS, but like well, yeah, because it was it was compared when it when it happened, it was compared to that. Well, like that's as a virus, but yeah. Bit of insider trading, I reckon. The mates upstairs are like you can't actually we can delete this part.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

We're gonna delete this motherfucker, Ben. Cut this part, cut this part. But anyway, that's what happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:31

So all their fucking whatever, and then we flew back and we got home quarantined. Yeah, the lucky. That was lucky. Yeah, we flew back, yeah. Because we got married 22nd of Feb. Yeah. And we were away for like 14 to 15 days. So we came that March period, and then bro, the week that we came back, it was like lockdown, lockdown, lockdown, lockdown, lockdown.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

It was like the longest honeymoon of the world because I was at home free.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

Yeah, but then yeah, so then you you came back here and then Yeah, we we came back here, then we quarantined, um, and then like it just kept going. And then the cases here were getting bad. Yeah, the cases in New York were worse, and that was when they were showing, like, you know, well, Singapore was the number one with a hundred cases.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

When I was here, oh really? That was the number one thing, and they were the first people to do work from home. Yeah. So the whole government paid for everybody to work at home, right? To work at home. They gave every single organization. This was so crazy when I heard it. I was at a cafe, and there were like three people working on their laptops, like tuning in on calls and stuff, and I was like, what the fuck is this? Like, this is weird. And they're like, Oh, we all got paid to go work from home for two weeks to stop the cases from growing, and now it's the norm, right? Now it's normal.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:54

Unbelievable. Yeah. So Sydney, you came back to Sydney and then?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:59

Yeah, and then like the cases started getting worse. Yeah. The cases getting worse here, getting worse in New York. End up to the point where wait for that. Yeah. End up to the point where you're like, New York's not a thing anymore. Yeah, well, because they couldn't they just couldn't survive. Yeah. So they were still paying rent and stuff like that. Like, don't forget, like, while we were here, it got better. So we we got our visas to New York, all that stuff. We got we got that sorted here in Sydney. Um and then it just got to a point where you know the building was there, it was empty. Um, landlords are still asking for rent. Yeah. So it just we had I had to give it up. You were starting on a back foot. Yeah. So it was it was gone. The site was gone. Um, and it was cool because we had all this stuff planned, like the idea of the restaurant was cool. Um, it would it's tilted today, it would be it would be fucking successful. Um, probably would have a little a bit more money now. Um, but you know what? Things you learn, right? You learn nobody planned for a pandemic, bro. But yeah, we all learn in that period. It's all life lessons. So then here you progressed. Um, and then how did you learn a job at a Sydney institution like Hubert? Ah, well, I was this is when I was working in uh at that restaurant in Lilemu. Um, we started that, working at um working for that group. I had when when starting, this is this is while I was on the way to New York. I did it as a consulting job. Um just because it was something to do. I wasn't working at the time. I got introduced to to them through JAD. Um, and then I started working there. And that that's when the New York thing fell through, I was still working there. Um and then I thought, okay, if I'm if I'm gonna stay in Australia, right, I'm gonna try and make something, make something of it. Um and starting that restaurant in Paramount wasn't easy, you know. It's in a it's in a suburb where it's but it's meant it's named to be the next C B D, but it's not there yet. Right. You're in a dining precinct where there's not many people passing through there, it's all school kids and university students. And everyone still thinks of Paro or Parramatto as being a shithole, right? Or not a shithole, but like it's not a very nice area. It's like a dangerous area. So the idea. You're talking people from the the suburb, like the city and the I mean because I, you know, growing up around the Hearstwell area, that's it's far from there. So we don't we don't go there very often. Um so staying there, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna see what I can do here. Um and the idea was to try and gun for a hat, to go for a hat, right? Because I just come back from overseas. Um I hadn't worked anywhere like in Australia for that for that long. So I not that I have a profile or anything, but I wanted to try and like to try and build one. And trying that in Parramatta was was like, okay, give it a go. Well, if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Whatever. And then the idea was I'm gonna try for a hat. I'm gonna go for it. Right. No one in that time had a hat in Paramount. So then to get that email that I'd been invited to the Good Food Awards, fuck, it was like an accomplishment, right? And and still to then, right, even even though I got that email, because I like Terry and Jill had been in for lunch, and they this is when we got the review during um during COVID. Well during the before the lockdowns, right? And they that's when they weren't giving out scores. So we had I had no idea. Like I was like, yeah, okay, I got reviewed. Great review, it was an excellent review, but they weren't doing hats at the time. I didn't get a score. So okay, fine, right? No hard feelings, as long as I got a good review. You felt like shit, right on the inside. A little bit, you did a little bit, you did. I can see it. Well, it's like you know, you feel like yeah, a little bit of a brilliant. Yeah, just like give me a fucking number. Yeah, because you know, yeah, I get you, I get you, I understand. I'm always pushing myself, right? So I'd like to know how you know how I went. Yeah, how you went, right? Because you're being judged by so many people every day, like people eating your food every day, right? You're getting reviewed, you're getting judged. I just wanted to know how how it went. Um, so when I got that letter, I was like, fuck, did I get a hat? I don't know yet. Nah. Why? Am I just getting the invite for because the group got one? So yeah, when I got when I when I went to the awards, got the hat, I was like, fuck, we've done it. Like we brought a hat all the way out to the west. And I'm not from the west, yeah, right, but it's still an accomplishment because to bring that area right, bring people bringing people into the area and and bringing people into area that enjoy food. Like, because I wasn't we were getting people in in in the restaurant that were from the north side, yep. Driving all the way to Para. Or you're getting people from Cornella driving to Para to come and eat there.

unknown 1:15:30

St.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:30

Leonard's, you know, Manly, uh, Balgala. Wow. They were coming to eat, right? And it's like, what are you doing in this place? Like, it's fucking Parramatta.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:41

Right? And I don't mean it in like a bird. Well, I guess, and I guess the timing quite interesting because at that time people were looking for an excuse to go somewhere because they couldn't leave. Yeah. So people were just travelling in between discovering new parts of Sydney that now they're open to. Yeah. So it was like kind of bittersweet for you at that time, to be honest. Yeah. Because think about it like opening the venue three years prior in Paramata. Oh man, no chance. No chance, no one to go there. Not no one to go there, yeah. But like exactly. It's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:11

You know, no one would no one would travel like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:14

Yeah. Like, it's not like it there was no scenery, it's not a destination. I went to uni in that building next door, right? No, yeah, Western Sydney.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:26

Yeah. Um exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:28

Like that, yeah, I get it. So then you did that at Lily Moo, and then Hubert, how'd that come about?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:36

Yeah, so I like I had achieved everything I wanted to from that parasite. Um, and it was a time when I was like, okay, now it's time to move on. I want I I need I need a different challenge. Like, I was getting bored. Um so You didn't give up, you were getting bored. Yeah, well, I I I knew going into that that site that was it was it's it was a time, it was a time limit thing. I wasn't gonna be there forever, right? And I had achieved what I wanted to out of it. So then what else is there for me to do there? You got it you just gotta come to that decision where it's like, okay, I've done this, I've done this here. What would I bring to this place anymore? For me, nothing. Did you get charged for moving on? What by by people for moving on from that space? By the company or by just saying in general, whoever it was. Probably. Yeah. Did I care? No. And how how because there's a lot of people that would relate to this. Yeah. How would you feel, you know, advising someone to stay to their purpose? Because that was your journey, that was your destiny. You're like, this is not what I want to do forever. I've got that one hat. Now it's my time to move on. How would you, you know, motivate somebody to communicate that to all the other stakeholders that this is what's this is what's happening? How do you have that conversation? It's it it's it's a difficult conversation, right? Because it doesn't matter how it goes down, they're not gonna be happy. Right. You just have to be confident in your decision. Right? Because at the end of the day, it's about you. Right? You could you they could pay you and this this is the decision like you have to look at look at it from your perspective, or you have to use your maturity at this point. They could offer you the most amount of money, or the dream amount, right? And you could say yes. And if you said yes, you'd still be there doing the same shit over and over again, and probably for about a year, and then you'd you'd come back to this position where you are now. Yeah, thinking, fuck, I should have gone. You're sort of doing them a favor to be honest. Yeah, you're doing them a favor without even knowing about it without without even without even knowing about it because you're gonna be in there and you're not really wanting to be there. So if you're not really wanting to be there, you're creating a level of toxicity in the environment.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:23

You know, and I guess it's a hard pill to swallow for operators out there. That, you know, if someone needs to leave, just let them go. Yeah, we have to.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:35

You like that's good, fine. I've heard every fucking sound today.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:41

One thing that like some operators need to kind of remember and think about, right? People always come and go. Right. The next person may not be a suitable replacement, but the one after that maybe will be your one. Right. Um, and you'll find the one. But you you'll never be able to hold somebody if they want to go. And there's no point because at the end of the day, if you try and keep them behind, your business suffers. Because they're not gonna put 110% into it. Because they've already lost interest. If you've lost interest once, it's very hard to get it back. I mean have you found that that happened to you?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:27

Yeah, for me, it was like I just needed I needed to work out who I was as an individual.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:34

Yeah. I need to work out myself. Um, and I was sort of limited to to that because I was a cog in a machine. A really big machine, and I was I was a cog in it, and it's like, okay, I needed like step out and actually understand my self-value and my worth. And no one could do that for me. But that's the thing, right? Like, a lot of people don't realize their self- their value. No, 100%, and and I totally agree with that. And they think they know their value. They think because what they get paid and what they can get a pay rise for is their self-value. Yeah. But that's not it, man. That's not that's not what when you understand your self-value, it's you understand your purpose, you understand why you do what you do, you understand why you go out there and you crush whatever you want to do, and you understand why you wake up in the morning to get this done. And I find that I went on a massive journey where I had a career mentor, mentor me for nine months. I'd touch base with them once a week, and during my journey, I would literally take so I I I cut my work days from five to four days. Yeah, I do one day of the working week as self-development. So, yeah, I took a day day off, but that one day I was actually working on myself. So I find when you're at a turning point in life, go on a holiday, have a break, and actually have a break, fucking reset, and then I found my best practice. What what helped me so much was I did a self-development day. I got into an MBA, so I started my MBA, so I'm upskilling myself, and then I went into full mode of self-development. I had a career mentor who's guiding me through this entire process. I never shared this with anybody, like to be honest, um, while I was going through the journey. I didn't tell anyone that I was working with someone to help me along the way. I was just doing what I was doing, and I had like three different mentors at the time, all for different things. I'm a hyper accelerated person and I like to cram my work in. I do deep work and I cram my work in. And that's just me though, because I get distracted quite easily, but when I when I'm forced to focus, yeah, I focus. So when I have things to focus on, and that's what was happening in my other in my career before, was that I had everything just running smoothly. It was fucking repetitive, it was the same thing over and over again. I I could literally roll out of bed and pick up the phone and do what I needed to do for the day. Yeah, it's like a robot, like you're like, literally, yeah, and I just felt like I was in the same vicious cycle, and it was my own vicious cycle, and I couldn't level it up anymore. Yeah, and it wasn't the organization, it was me. Yeah, it was me being complacent and me being over it and whatever. Yeah. So maybe I was the level of toxicity in the space, yeah. And that's why I found that okay, I need to take a step back, I need to be humble, and I need to work out, you know, maybe it's not the people around me, it's me. And even though I've tried to work on myself and change the environment and whatnot, I can't really do anything else. So I need to really go on and go and find myself, and that's when I found my purpose.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:02

Yeah, it's doing stuff like this, doing stuff like this where it's like being able, you know, because when I was looking for stuff like this, I couldn't find it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:12

Especially for hospitality, like I could not find it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:15

No, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:16

There's not many mentoring programs out there or like advice platforms, and it's not like I'm not I'm not trying to like, you know, this sort of conversation, nobody's given this platform to people like you to share their story. And the reason why I want to get people like you on here is because you've been through the ringer. You've copied it. No, you you have you and you fucking you flew around here and there, and you to travel somewhere like to travel somewhere to a foreign country with your partner on a limb, on a potential business model that you you put you took a fucking you took a handshake on that didn't go through, and then you you had the balls to fucking say, you know what, this guy didn't do it, another guy in New York's gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:10

And your partner stuck with you during that period, like you went there, then you were gonna go to New York, then a pandemic hit, then you come to Sydney, and you're like, I'm fucking no one here, and you're like, Yeah, you know what?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:22

I'm gonna fucking make a hat in Western Sydney, and you do that. Yeah, it's like it it it it it defies it for me. That shows and coming from what I define as the lazy chef, you were a lazy chef when you were a kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:40

I call myself a lazy chef. You're a lazy chef, you're right. I tagline you're the lazy chef because you were for for the first part of your career, you were a lazy chef, and just look at once you understand your purpose and you fucking persevered through that time, look what you've been able to trump and accomplish, and now you're working at an Australian institution like Hubert. Yeah, one of the one of the most well-known restaurants within in the city, in the southern hemisphere, yeah. But like the the whole point, like going back to where I was in para and I was like, you know what, I need a different challenge, you know, because previously before that, I was cooking Asian food. Yeah, like from the Wong's days, I was cooking Asian food, and I was like, you know what, it's for me it's getting it's just getting a bit repetitive for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:31

Bro, you're like a fighter that's just gone up in weight divisions, but it's and then and then changed fucking martial arts. Yeah, but it's not. You've gone from Taekwondo to karate, and now you're in jujitsu. You and and you you then you go now, you're in the UFC.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:47

Like, you know what I mean? You're you're fighting, your combat styles are just completely changed and persevered over time. Well, that's what I think you you have to mix it up, and and to any other chef, I'd say the same thing, right? Mix it up because you can learn so many different things from different cuisines, and to combine that all into one, right? Nobody can do that except for you. Because everyone's brain thinks differently and how to how to how to make these different cuisines interact with each other and work and will mingle, right? Is a challenge. Yeah, it's hard. That's the hardest part, right? And that's what that's why I was like, okay, I'm gonna go for this job at Hubert, right? Um, and that's why I chose that venue to work at. I've of course I've been cooking Asian food for the past six years or eight years or however, like probably longer, if I could lost count.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:44

And I wanted to go into that that space where it's uncomfortable doing French. But what can I what can I interact or put into that that I've learned over these years cooking Asian food? What can I put into that Chinese food? And and other chefs have done it. Done it. Um, he's one of the biggest pioneers of that Japanese French food, right? In Australia, which unfortunately is restaurant no longer. Um he's done it. Yeah. Dan Hong's done it, you know. Jow at U's done it, right? But they've all they've all had their individual spin on things, right? They've all done it in their own individual style, in their own individual way. So it's like, okay, how am I gonna do this? So that's that's why I took the job. And I'm still learning to today how to do it, right? Or what what is I should say like how to do it effectively. Um, and it's something that I've you know, half some of the chefs from my old workplace have followed me over. Um, they wanted to come over to work to learn and learn something new as well. And now I can see like them thinking the same way that I do. And like I did a canopy tasting, and one of the canopes was the one the one that he put up, is exactly what the fuck I would cook. And I was like, I he's he's learned. He's learned how I think, he's learnt how I think about food, he's learnt the style that I cook with, he knows what I like, he knows my seasoning level, he knows everything. And I was like, fuck, I've done it. And and this only happened literally a couple of days ago when I first tried the canopy. I was like, it's I was like, fuck, did I make this? Because now everything that I've taught and passed on to him in the years that he's worked under me, he's picked it up. And now that's how he that's how he sees it, that's how he cooks. I'm like, yeah, that's fucked that's it, job's done. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I and that's why I took that job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:56

And you know, what do you think, what do you see in your peripherals now? In your in your short future, in your long future? Um you just living in the present.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:07

Just trying to do what I can do. Um I'm I'm currently trying to learn learn a new cuisine. Um, so that's that's a bit of a challenge. While while I'm learning Hubert, and while I'm doing the food at Hubert, learning another venue and trying to trying to learn that cuisine and and improve on that. Um, but that that involves learning another cuisine, and you know, it's it's a challenge, it's a new challenge for me, and it's that's what fuck, that's what I get excited about. Um and you've been in Hubert for like nine months, and already you're like, all right, this is this is available, I'm gonna fucking take it and let's run it. Let me do it, I'll do it. Yeah. Cause it's like, you know, um, to come back into Hubert and to bring it back back into the spotlight again. Um, not that it hasn't been in the spotlight, right, but it it it came to a point where it was more about the jazz rather than the food. And when I ate there, I was like, okay, now I can see why.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:17

So to change that within the short time that we did, uh, or that I did, or we did, more, it's more we did because it's a team, we all did it together. Um, and to change that and to to get that reset that review back again and to and to bring it back to its former glory of you know, getting that second hat back, you know, then getting a hat back is like one of the fucking hardest things, right? So they they had two hats and they went to one hat. Yeah. Wow. And then now you brought it back up to two hats. And brought it back up again. Wow. Within, you know, within that short span of a year. Yeah. There's always a saying, it's easier to it's it's it's easier to earn a hat than it is to retain it. Yeah. And to aim to and to earn one that's been lost is even harder. Wow. And okay, this is a great piece. What's one piece of advice you'd give to somebody who's lost that hat and they need to earn it back? Don't think about the hat. Just do what you do. Cook what you love, but don't worry about the hat. If it comes, it comes. If it doesn't, it doesn't. If your restaurant's busy, right? You're doing something right. But don't be fixated on the prize sometimes. Or don't be fixated on on getting that hat. Because if you aim, if you always aim for it, you'll try too hard and you'll never get it. Just do what you do. And put that that frame of mind of I need to get that hat back, get it out of your head. Because your skill and your talent and what you do will gain you that hat back. Because it was like that. It's it's like reviews, right? Like I remember reading this thing um about Eric Robert um from the Bernadine. And it was about reviews, restaurant reviews. He said just read it once, digest it, and forget about it. Throw it out. Don't read it again. Because if you keep reading it, you'll you'll let it get to you, and you'll keep pushing harder and harder, and you'll try too hard. And then if you don't do enough, nothing will change. And I I remember reading that, and I was like, okay, that's fucking that's true. And when was that when you read that? Fuck, that was ages ago, man. I can't even remember. But that helped you change your mindset. So who's people now that you would like look up to? Who do you look up to at the moment for for advice and mentorship? Not directly, but like people that you follow, people that you look at. Who who who are those key iconic characters in your world that young chefs should aspire to be like? Well, that this is actually a hard question. Right? Because you got your greats in terms of like you got your great chefs out there who, you know, like the Dan Hongs, um, the Peter Gilmours, um the Tets, you know, they're the great example of and they shaped what the way the industries and the cuisines we cook now, right? So what they do is always, always special, right? In terms of the new dishes they put out and stuff like that, you know, it's great to look up to them because even the stuff that they've done before is still relevant today. It's true, man. You know what I mean? It's true, but that cheeseburger spring roll fucking shaped the entire economy.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:13

Everybody talks about that thing, but it shaped all of a sudden they're on freezer shelves, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:17

Yeah, like but you see, like that was created what, probably in early 2000s, right? It's 24 now, and people are still fucking. And that's what it's timeless.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:32

I swear to you, we went to Chuckoba for dinner. Yeah. And then we went across the road for the the the the stoner's delight for dessert.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:42

See, that's iconic.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:43

I couldn't, I went to I sorry, like I didn't have I wanted I literally said I want to get a uzushu slushy and a fucking and uh stoner's delight for my dessert. Literally, and it's a it's a cra bro, it's a cracker dessert. You can't go wrong with it. Yeah, you know, it was just like the and and it's just that that menu's just done so well, and it's just again, it's transcended in time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:08

So like in terms of chefs, like it's the Robishons, you know, Joe Robishon's, Alan DuCass, you know, all that all that old school Marco's old it's funny because I I still watch those um cooking with Marco videos, um, you know, Cooks are Harveys and Gordon's the Young Kid, like it's stuff like that. Like I watch that and think fuck that that would have been like fucking cool yeah to be there, yeah. And what's um you know what's one piece of advice you'd give to to that chef right now, like if he was like tuning in to this whole episode, what's one final note you'd give him? If you look down that barrel of the camera as if you're looking into his eyes, what the fuck would you say to him? You want me looking the camera now? Look in the camera and tell him look him or her, it might get tough, you might not like where you're at, right? And shit might happen, and you might be in a shit situation where you know you're just hating where your workplace. But sometimes you just need to stick it out because you never know what's gonna happen. Just don't all I would say is just don't give up. Be confident and don't give up. Brendan Fong, you're a legend, bro. Thank you so much for your time today. Thanks, man.