SPEAKER_00 0:00

You stay playing to your strengths and he stays plain to his strengths. How do you ensure that always goes down the line?

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Just being honest with each other, you know? Like really everything's on the table. You know, how do we sort that solution out? The shit find the shit and the good find the good. And and it's so true, like the good people find the good people, and the shit people find the shit people.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

You know, yes, there is an element of friendship and trust, but at the end of the day, you're running a PTY LTD, you're not running a non-for-profit organisation. Right? And this is where my ethos of turning passion to profit always comes through.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

As long as I'm delivering a beautiful product and it's quality, then this friendship and the ecosystem of hospitality looks after it.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

If you can make money out of your passion, you're never working a day in your life. Yeah, true. How do you maintain profitable? How do you maintain successful? In this episode of the Hospital Dojo podcast, I sat down with Sam Gordon. Sam grew up in his family business, Robert Gordon Pottery, which became a global name in retail and hospitality. After more than 20 years there, he stepped away to get back on the wheel, making custom plates for top Australian restaurants like Nomad's Stokehouse and Josh Nyland's venues, as well as international projects including Louis Vuitton in Mexico, which had about leaving a family business, creating sustainable designs for hospitality, and his new venture building handcrafted pottery in Vietnam. So we got Mr. Sam Gordon here. First of all, thank you for inviting us to your friend's venue. This is beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. Hey? Friends in high places.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

How do you pronounce the name of this venue? Uh Rain and LaRue. LaRu. Yeah, Laru. Sorry, I always struggle with two.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

And they're the same guys that own Nomad, right? Yeah, Nomad.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Jackie is a legend, you know. So I work closely with Jackie on some projects, but um good friend. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

And you know, I would have loved to um film this in your in your studio, uh, but unfortunately, timing and and and and everything, so we've we've you blessed us with this space, so thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

That's nice, it's it's um substantially bigger than my studio. So the studio's in Jambrook and it overlooks the um state forest, but it's um yeah, it's home. So how long have you been there? We've lived there for eight years, um, and I built the studio two years ago. Okay. So it's it's a design lab, it's where I make small runs of crockery for people, and yeah, it's lovely.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah, Mr. Sam Gordon, or Potter Sam Gordon, as I like to call you. Um give us a bit of a a rundown on you. From what I know, you're a you're a third generation uh potter. Uh what what does that what does that entail?

SPEAKER_01 2:40

So, yeah, my grandparents had a pottery called Dyson Studios, and then we you know, my parents worked for them, so my dad, sorry, can't like is that I always struggle with that. That's okay. Yeah, no, that's right, sorry. Um, yeah, so third generation potter, my grandparents had Dyson Studios, and then my dad worked for them when he was a kid, and then um in the 1979 started Robert Gordon Pottery, and so you know, we all grew up. I've got a brother and two sisters, and we all went into the company. Um, I was there for 20 years, it was great fun, and then I just wanted to get back to the grassroots of jumping on a pottery wheel and doing that, you know. Like I just felt a great need to get back on the wheel.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Right. So you so Robert Gordon obviously got built up to a juggernaut that's in retail, hospitality, architectural items, architectural items, yeah. Um, and it's an internationally acclaimed.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah, it's global. Yeah. So when I was there, I was traveling up to six months of a year, you know. I was doing China, America, Europe, trade shows. It was just huge. You know, it's a big business, it's great, you know, and every success to them, it's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah, and you decided to take the step out. Um was that two and how many years ago was that now?

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Uh two and a half, yeah, yeah. It was a big move. You know, family business is hard. You know, I was there for over 20 years and 21 years. It just um I just felt a need to do something on my own.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah, and opening Sam Gordon Pottery, what's your ethos there?

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Oh, it sounds really silly, but it was always Carrie, my wife, who I work with, who um who also joined the company. Uh we just want to make plates for mates. Like it's just like I love hospitaux, and I love the the ecosystem and the camaraderie and and you know, venues like this. Um, so we're just bespoke crockery for the best restaurants. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

And you only focus in on hospitality.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, I'm only doing hospitals. You know, retail. I spent so much time in retail, and it kills me. Like, you've got to run really hard. You can have a range of crockery in hospitality, which will be around for 20 years. No problem. You know, the same design, and it'll sit down, it'll be sustainable, it's lovely. Retail, you've got to do seasonal designs. You've got to do four designs a year, and then they slash and burn 25% off, 50% off, just kills your brand, and you know, and you'll have a beautiful design there, but they'll just trash it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

And do you find that we get do we have a lot of feedback? Is that right? Yeah. Um, do you find that being in hospitality lets you have that creative freedom more so than retail?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Um, yeah, for me, it's more substance, like it's more real, it feels more real. You're not you're not designing something knowing that next season it's gonna be in the bin regardless because they want newness. They talk about newness, and it's like such a catchphrase which just killed me because you can have a beautiful product. Sorry, Sammy, it's you know, we've got to go on to you know spring summer now, you know. That's 25% off. You're like, fuck, you know, like I want what are you doing that for? Whereas in hospitality, it everyone talks about sustainability, but to me, sustainability is having a design that lasts and production that lasts, and and whereas in retail, um, it just it's not like that anymore.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yeah, yeah. And did you find that touching on your retail experience, you you guys obviously grew so you you and the siblings grew the business, I'd say.

unknown 6:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah, dad, dad left when I dad retired out and mum retired out when I left too, so they were very hands-on um during that period. So it was a true family business. Mum, dad, Hannah, Kate, Bobby, and myself, I'm the youngest of the four. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

And then, and did you find that with the pressures of of the retail space, what was, you know, sorry, I'll rephrase that. In retail, there's obviously significant pressures.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yeah. What was the biggest pressure of all? Oh, coming out with new designs all the time and managing that stock. You know, it's it's big, it's a big business, you know, you've got to land that stock, warehouse it, distribute it, you know, and always new designs.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

It's and and as a humble potter, how did you manage to learn that business side?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

So when I first joined the company, I was 19 and I left, you know, I got out of high school, I got not bad marks, and I thought I would go and study commerce. And I got two years into commerce and I bombed out, I was terrible, I was failing, and dad goes, You better come back to the pottery. So I went back to the pottery and I worked on the factory floor. Um, and I was there for 10 years, and I was factory manager and things like that, and I loved it. So every day I was getting my hands dirty and you know, knowing knowing how to make you know pottery. And then for the other 10 years, I was a sales manager. So travelling around selling. Um, yeah, I just loved it. And that's hands-on. We didn't have a lot of pottery wheels or none then. So dad got rid of most of the wheels in the late 80s, but always had one in the back room and I'd muck around on a pottery wheel, knowing it's just there's something about making something with your hands and that energy in the piece when you give it to someone, it's nothing like a machine made, it's nothing like you know, buying off the shelf. It's it's chefs and chefs understand that, and I just wanted I just felt a need to get back on the wheel.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

But yeah, and with you know, pottery being such a passionate project, transitioning from such a big big business of Robert Gordon, who's such a well-respected brand in the industry, to going out and starting your own organization in a hyper niche field of hospitality. Um have you been able to continually run a successful business while maintaining your passion?

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Oh, good question. I don't know if it's successful. It's successful.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Oh, look, when I mean successful, like you've got a great personal brand.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yeah, I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

And that's something that you built over 20 years, it's not something that was built yesterday. Um, but you know, I guess I guess where I can relate is is when you're going through a transitional period of moving from being a big cog in a wheel to going out as your own personal brand and standing on your own two feet, um, it really sets a test to you as an individual to say, okay, do I what is my self-worth? What is my value? And when you're like I'm passionate about designing kitchens, I froth over designing kitchens. That's like something that I do every single day, and I and I actually love it. Yeah. Um, and it's something that the way that you, you know, you make something with your hands for a plate, the way that I design in four walls, and then off that little drawing, an entire space gets built for people to come and enjoy and sit and eat, and people have been able to work in that space and be safe, yeah. Right, for me, that's like that's I've I've achieved so much. So this is where where I come back like to that to that question. It's like when you're so passionate about things, we burn a lot of hours, yeah. We burn a lot of time. How do you maintain you know, profitable? How do you maintain successful?

SPEAKER_01 9:53

I I knew I had to go back and I knew it was gonna be a long slog, and making things off the pottery wheel is hard. It's physically hard, and also restaurants like if you sell a $35 plate and it breaks in the kitchen, they're made no money, like it's it's bad. So I knew that there's a cap on pricing, I knew all that stuff. I've I've had to, you know, I've got a small studio where I designed for probably about 10 customers around Australia, so Josh Nyland, Stokehouse, these guys, you know. Um, but outside of that, I also design and develop for companies overseas. Okay. And we're working on a couple of projects in Vietnam, which is really exciting too.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

So you currently run your studio to operate for like you do you cap yourself at clients? Are you open to business? 100%. Cap myself at clients.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

And if I don't know them out of my studio, this is my handmade things. I just don't take the order. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. So how many clients do you have? Probably I'd say 10 tops. Wow. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

And and then in the in the background of that, you're consulting other larger organisations?

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Yeah, not only that, I've got a partnership with a man called Harry. Sorry, I'm with a man. I didn't want to say that. I've got a business partnership um with Harry Poronitas, who's who has a company called Bambus, and together we're building a pottery in Vietnam.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

And you're going to be producing handcrafted pottery in Vietnam?

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah, it's a dream. So it's been going on for 18 months. So I've been going back and forth. I've I've kept the lid on it, I haven't told a lot of people about it, but I it's because sometimes the dream's so big that I don't want to tell people about it because if it fails or something like that, I'm really nervous about it. But we're at a stage now where I can start talking about it. But we've got about 30 workers there, all being retrained on how to make on the pottery wheel. So when I went over there, the opportunity existed with a company called Vietnam Housewares. It's going to get a little bit complicated, but Vietnam Housewares supply most of the world with terracotta pots, garden pots, and things like that. And they wanted one of their potteries to be tabletop. So we've gone over there and consulted and bought into the program, retrain staff, and they're making tableware on pottery wheels. So this will be a commercial pottery, but all made on the pottery wheel. So retraining 20-30 staff, and that's always growing too. So it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

That's amazing. So you've been able not to not just uh grow but staying true to your roots.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

You know, make good plates for mates, is that plates for mates.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Plates for a lot of mates. Yeah, yeah, so on. Um no, making on the bodywheel was just it's not like an opportunity. I didn't see it as an opportunity, I just saw it true to what we want and Harry too. And and Harry's good at making sure and keeping me under pace and making sure that everything gets done properly and things like that. I you realise when you join a partnership that you know certain people bring you got to be true to what I bring, and I bring the skill and the expertise about training staff and getting on the ground, and Harry, Harry's guiding me through the business opportunities around that and making sure it's right to market.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

And how important was it you you've had this dream for a while? Yeah, a long time, yeah. So, how important is it to you selecting that right partner? Like, how did you even go about that?

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Well, Harry in the market was essentially a competitor. You know, he he has um one of his brands is Salt and Pepper, it's a beautiful homewares brand. Um, and he's always loved hospitality and we've got mutual friends, and we sat down and had a long lunch and we we um spoke about joining forces and it's been great.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Wow. And you know, in that, how do you how do you ensure that you know your strengths and your weaknesses are um you know you you you stay playing to your strengths and he stays playing to his strengths? How do you ensure that always goes down the line? Because I know in some partnerships um you know weight gets pushed around at some cases, and that could really throw a spanner in the works uh towards a project like this. How do you guys as a team ensure that that doesn't happen?

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Look, you know, great question. It's it takes a little bit of time. We've we've been as a partnership, we've been together for two years, and the project's been going on 18 months. But yeah, I'm well aware Harry runs a really successful company and a series of companies, and what I bring to the table is very unique to him. And you know, I lean on Harry a bit and he leans on me, and we we've had conversations which are been difficult, but we've always worked through it, and it's not about it's you know, it's about what what the resolution of that has been like, and it's been amazing, you know. So um just being honest with each other, you know, like really everything's on the table, you know, how do we sort that solution out? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Now there are some you know, people in hospitality that have have worked in kitchens for all their lives and want to potentially leave the kitchen, yeah. And they want to get into you know something like pottery or you know, supplying restaurants, supplying F and B in this hyper-niche world, right? In it's you know, even as big as it is, it is so super niche where its requirement is very, very, very selective. What's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who wants to um you know potentially transition and go into supplying restaurants or still staying in hospitality but working from the other side of the fence?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Um I think if you've been in the industry for a long time, just you know, stay in contact with people, like I was so lucky when I I've just got a beautiful network of friends who I don't, you know, I've got a group of high school mates I catch up with, but apart from that, my my friends are you know, the industry, you know, I love the industry. And I think if you've got that um trust within the industry and you look after one another, you'll be fine. Like that's how I feel about it. Yeah, if you go out and they want to be, you know, they want to open a butcher shop or something like that, and you've kept that reputation there and and friends, the ecosystem looks after itself, and that's how I feel about it. As long as I'm delivering a beautiful product and it's quality, then this this friendship and the ecosystem of hospitality looks after itself.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah, and if you've got someone that's like an introvert, yeah, there's a lot of introverts in our game, and there are some days where I feel introverted, funny enough. How do you you know sort of push that barrier of that comfort zone to to grow that friendship, to grow that trust? Because you're a trusted person, man. Like you're very well trusted. Like anyone that I've ever spoken to and I've mentioned your name, like you're at the top of the list. I appreciate it. So how do you how do you hold that and and how do you you know sort of communicate to someone this is how I upheld trust?

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Um I'm probably gonna refer to what Harry says to me all the time, and it's a little bit cliche, but he just says, mate, the shit find the shit and the good find the good. And and it's so true, like the good people find the good people, and the shit people find the shit people. And we're sitting here today because we've got mutual friends and things like that, and I like you know, that's how I feel about the industry. The good people find the good people, and if they are introverted, they've always been looked after, they're always in the industry and they love it. So I think the industry looks after itself and looks after the good.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah, 100%. I I can definitely relate to that. And I think one thing that more than anything, whether you're behind the kitchen, whether you're in front of house, whether you're supplying restaurants, whether you're a provider, whether you sell equipment, whether you do pottery, the biggest thing for a venue is delivering. Yeah, you need to be able to hold your word and deliver. Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing. Because like it's like, for example, you know, someone's sitting at a table, they order a steak.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

I'm guilty of this so I I've I've completely when I went out on my own, I was so worried about not being busy that I said yes to everyone. And then I had like, I must have clocked up hundreds of hours on the wheel trying to deliver, you know, and I I let people down. That's why I've kept my studio at a certain number. That's really hard. Yeah, it's a hard thing to do when you just go out.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

And and you letting people down in the process, what did that do to you in that in that in that time frame?

SPEAKER_01 17:57

No, I hate it, and and it's a bit of a running joke at the moment, to be honest. So I've got I've got a bit of work to do on that, yeah. 100%, you know. Like you talked to Jackie or Jason from Stokehouse, yeah. I'm miles behind on orders. Like it's not good. You just got to be honest with them and and you know, do that.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

And you know that that's a that's a scary thing. Like, obviously, when you when you started out your own business and and you got you got pushing, it's like I need I need I need funds to come in. Yeah, I need money to come in, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Let's let's do this. You say yes to everything, yeah. Do you regret it? Yeah, of course. I I yeah, the the saying that you know bite off more than you can chew and chew like crazy is pretty true, you know. Like you just you've got to go fight it out. Yeah. But do but do you think like I would I be where I am if I didn't say exactly no no you you're right. I I I picked up some amazing jobs and had to put some other jobs on the back. You always look after an opening. So if I knew a restaurant was opening, it would get pushed ahead of someone else, and I always look, I'd never want to miss an opening, I'd never miss an opening. So Josh Nyland was a big opening in Singapore um for the addition hotel. That that killed me, so I got that done. Um there was Curtis Stone's order. Curtis Stone opened up a resort um with Louis Vuitton in Mexico, and he came out and saw me. And originally, when I caught up with him, um he said, Sam, it'll be a couple of hundred pieces, no problem. And he's a mutual friend of Harry, he's a good friend of Harry's. And um, and then it grew to he came out with his mum, spent the day with me in the studio, designed all his tableware. I sent the samples off, and then he placed an order for 1250 pieces, and I thought my head was gonna explode, you know, and I I had to employ a mate to help me out, Eddie, and you know, we got through it, but it was you know, it was hell. But yeah, but we supply Louis Vuitton down in Mexico, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

So it's like that that's where the that's where I'm like, you you can say yes to you're in business at the end of the day. Yeah. You know, yes, there is an element of um friendship and trust, but at the end of the day, you're running a PTY L T D, you're not running a non-for-profit organization.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

No, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Right, and this is where my ethos of turning passion to profit always comes through. And that's that's my biggest thing is that I always try to push this onto you know any anyone that that that is really passionate about what they do. Because I really believe if you can make money out of your passion, you're you're never working a day in your life. Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah, there's a little bit of stress there, but yeah, but at the end of the day, yeah, you love what you do. No, I couldn't imagine when I left the family business, I was only ever going to be a potter. Like, I I didn't know if you know, I was like, give me a block of clay. You know, that's all I wanted to do, yeah, and a restaurant to supply. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

So back on that, back on that overcommitment level, and uh, I just want to stress on it because it's something that I can relate to. When you when you found yourself in that pickle where you weren't able to deliver everything, how did you communicate?

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Oh no, you pick up the phone, you gotta talk, you just gotta call them and apply. Yeah, don't don't avoid them. No, you can't avoid them, you can't hide, you can't hide. You just say I'm so sorry, and sometimes you've got to find an alternative to them, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

I'll be honest with you, when I was young, when I was like 19, 20, my biggest thing was I would push that call to the last minute, yeah, and that was the worst thing. Yeah, it's terrible. Like I knew something wasn't gonna get delivered, yeah, and I was like, maybe something would change, maybe something would change, maybe something would change. I'd always bank myself on a potential, but I actually knew in hindsight, like in my subconscious, I knew that it's like a 95% chance it's not gonna happen. So, but I never had the confidence to make that call. I was always worried that you know, if I if I communicated at that early stage, what's gonna happen? But at the end of the day, you gotta face the music somehow, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Yeah, it feels good when you make it, to be honest, and you just Get it off your chest, you're like in a confession booth, and you just go, mate, I'm so sorry. You know, let's work through it, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah, and I think, especially on that deliverable, like whether you're in the kitchen and you got a prep list that you couldn't get through, or um you you you're a providor and you're supposed to deliver to a restaurant on a certain time and you miss the delivery, or you know a certain product is not going to be on that delivery to the restaurant, don't wait till it gets to the restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

The restaurant calls you. No, you can't do it. Fucking cannot do it. You you last you won't last five seconds. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

You know, yes, it'll be it'll be a heated conversation because we're in an emotional, passionate industry. Yeah. And people love what they do here, and and they've got a lot of you know, time and stress on the line. Like the kitchen's a stressful environment. Let's let's face it. And running a hospitality business is so dynamic. So I feel like if you're able to give them more notice, the the most notice you possibly can, you can at that point be able to come up with a solution. But if you if you just hold it and just like let it fizzle out, yeah, I'm guilty of it too.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

I've done it for sure. And I think the biggest thing changed in my business, so I've been out for two and a half years, but for a year and a half I've been in business partnership with Harry, yeah, working on Vietnam and other things, but also Carrie, my wife, came on board. So she was a primary school teacher for 20 years, quit her job, and now helps, you know, now's my business partner as well. And she's like, Sam, get off the fucking couch, go make some pots, you know, go go finish the order. And I and it's been good. It's been that pressure of her there and pushing orders and things like that. Keeping you accountable, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, Jess is on my tail about did I record that video? And I'm like, I just want to just want to relax. Fucking post it, you know. I I totally I relate with that so much, man. And what do you find now? Like, what's obviously the Vietnam project is is underway.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yep. But what's next for you? No, I I get obsessed by things, and Vietnam for me is an obsession. So getting that off the ground and growing that and marketing that and getting on the ground and retraining, I love it there. Yeah, Vietnam's an incredible place. Yeah. Is it in Ho Chi Minh? Yep, it's now outside of Ho Chi Minh. We've developed our own clay body, it's got Illumina in it, super strong. It's gonna like without being too dramatic about it, it'll change our world of plates. And you know, um, as long as we can get a really good distributor on board to take that out to the world, um, that's what we want.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

So are you gonna find distributors in other countries or are you gonna find a main distributor?

SPEAKER_01 24:41

No, we'll we'll find potentially one distributor will do everything, but um like someone said to me, You've got the brand, you've got the product, the the kingdom is the distribution. So we need to we'll really work now on finding a suitable distributor to get that out to the world.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

There's anyone out there you can reach out to Sam. Thank you. Because they're looking for distributors. Um, and who are you who are you aiming to service or supply? No, hospitable only.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Hospital only. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the people who do it really well is Steelite International, which I've got a relationship with now. I designed for those guys. So they're in every country in the world. Um, yeah, we'll be presenting to those guys, but then no one does it better than those guys.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Yeah. Yeah, Steel Light's a is a quality plate. And you know, for those that aren't so educated in hospitality um or understand plateware or crockery in hospitality, what's the difference of durability of hospitality products versus retail products? Because you know, there are some cafe owners that go, Oh, I'll just buy a dollar plate from Kmart.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Yeah, I've got a funny Kmart story actually. I was in a pub in Sydney and I went into the dishwashing area because I always check out the dishwashing area. I don't know why I always look after a dishi because they can make or break you. Seriously, in my world, if if you've got a bad dishi, you smash your plates, you're gone, you know. But I went in there, there was a bucket, they weren't using Kmart plates, and there was a bucket next to the sink with all chip plates. Every fortnight that dishi would go back to Kmart, clean them up, put them in a box and say, sorry, these plates didn't work, and then get free plates back. I thought that was the end of the industry for me. I thought that was the because they're basically they buy one plate and then for the rest of their life they get the chip edge warranty on it and they take it back. But it doesn't work like that. People want quality, you know, they want, you know. I was horrified. That was the worst thing I've ever seen. And I had to get the chef to explain it to me twice. I go, what do you mean? He cleans the plates, re-boxes them, takes them back and says, sorry, they're chip, because Kmart have a chip warranty.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Yeah. But a bit of self-respect, and people under, you know, they what they want, you know, you can eat a McDonald's or you can eat here. You know, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

But but it I but there is there is still substance in the plateware. What's the main difference?

SPEAKER_01 26:46

So the main difference you talk about vitrification, which means so a glass is fully vitrified, it holds water, it doesn't absorb um water. And so you want your plateware to be like glass, you want it to not absorb water. So fully vitrified, um, if it wasn't fully vitrified, it leaks into the plate, and over time you get spider lines and it crack crazes and cracks and it chips really easy. So fully vitrified is a big one. And what that why a hospitality plate is more than a retail plate is because the energy costs needed to go to the extra temperature to get that fully vitrified. Yeah. Right. So it could be the exact same material. It'll look the same. You could you could have it side by side, look exactly the same. One's fully vitrified, one's not, it'll last 10 times longer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Wow. Yeah. That's so interesting. And Sammy, if there was one piece of advice you'd tell your younger self right now, as a potter. In in in the hospitality industry. As a potter? Uh someone that services the hospitality industry. What's something that you'd tell your younger self at 19 or 20 after you left the uni that you wish you you could tell them?

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Um do less contra in hospital. Make a bit more money. No, no, yeah. Um, no, it's not that. It's I don't I wouldn't change a thing for you. It's just being honest and being on the ground. I think that's the most important thing, which I've learned is just being humble, you know. I'm not a corporate, like there's these huge brands now, and they're corporate, and they've got these amazing hospitality stands and they're great. But I think a chef wants to know a potter how he knows his um baker or his butcher. When we're not a commodity item, we're we're like, you know, I just that's how I want to be known as a potter. I want to know like how they look at their, you know, where they get their vegetables from or their butcher, that Sam the Potter is a you know, how they look at a butcher or something. I'm not a commodity item where you go to Kmart or something, but and I'm not an artist, I'm just a potter.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

So I wouldn't change anything to be honest. Wow. Yeah. Besides the contra part.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Besides the contra. Yeah, because there's a lot of service-based businesses like refrigeration mechanics, there's a lot of guys uh that are in the game in the service world that would say, Oh, you know, don't fix me up the fridge, I'll get a free dinner.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I know a lot of people that live by that ethos. Uh, but I feel like that stagnates your growth. Yeah. Do you find that?

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Oh, that was so silly. I used to when the when contra would come around, I'd I'd discount the product down and then get Contra, and they'd be chart, you know, you get full whack, you know. I'd I'm just too generous. You know, sometimes you can be too generous, but that's fine. Yeah, you live and learn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

But would you say what would you say about being too generous? Like you we should comment on that. Because that's something that like there's a lot of generous people out there.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

I yeah, I I think I can afford to be like I can't afford to be generous, but I I like I like giving away some things sometimes. You know, you just you're just a generous person or you're not, but I I I like to give away some things. Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. You get it back, but fuck, it's it's a pot now, yeah. You know, we're not, yeah. Yeah, I I enjoy it. You know, and you know, you know who to give it away to and who not to, you know, if I'm supplying a huge restaurant chain, yeah. You know, but if I'm supplying an owner-operator and a chef owner-operator is always close to my heart, all the time. You know, no problem. I'll give something away.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

And you said something very important before, which I just want to go back and touch on. You said the dishy is the most person that you why? Why is the dish man or the the dish person?

SPEAKER_01 30:11

In my industry as a potter, yeah. Yeah, they can kill you. If they're bang, crash, like slamming through stuff, a plate, if it's vitrified or not, is gonna break. You know, it's it's you know, it's ceramic, it's gonna break. So I always look after the dishy. If it I'll go there and it's a nice neat stack and you know, essentially scrape me off dishes and putting them away. I love them. Yeah, it's fine. So, how do you look after them? I give them a pat and I say thank you, mate.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah, I'm just appreciating you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's all they want.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Is there a way that you train them to like no?

SPEAKER_01 30:42

You just know, you know, yeah. I mean they're doing a really hard job, you know. You just just a bit of love and say thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

And that's sometimes that's all you need to do, right? Yeah. Is show a bit of appreciation.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Um and I guess if there's if there's one piece of advice you give to someone who wants to start their own business, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Um, firstly I've never looked at the money. I know that sounds really bad. I've I look at the industry we're in, and the hospital you can go, there's a lot of levels, you know, and I want to be the best at what I do, you know, always. And everyone wants to do that, like you know, be the best, but it's just you know, being appreciative along the way and and you know, starting out humble. That's it. Just be humble and don't be scared to start very low. Like I've had to go back to go forward, you know. I had a wheel in my garage two years ago making pots, you know. I've just you've got to go back to go forward sometimes. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Where before you were in like a massive factory?

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Of course, you know, 100 staff, you know, buying officers, designers, you know, all that stuff was all there. Whatever I wanted, you know, no problem. A mould maker, a 3D printer, a graphic designer, industrial designer, you know, anything I wanted, you know. So, but now it's it's not like that at all.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

It's you and your humble potter wheel.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Yeah, just go back to I've gone back to the garage with the pottery wheel. I did what my grandfather did and I did what my dad did. You know, I never never thought that would happen at the age of 40, but it did. It's been good for me. That's beautiful, mate.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

I've uh thank you so much for your time today. Nah, thank you for it. It's been a it's been a blessing to be sharing sharing uh sharing a chat with you um in your hometown of Melbourne. Thank you. And uh I just wanted to let you know again that anyone that I've ever come across in the past ten years has only said great things about you. So I just want you to know that from the horse's mouth. Um, and I I now see why.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

No, I really appreciate it. Thank you for all thank you very much. Thank you, man. Thank you.