SPEAKER_01 0:00

In this episode of the Hospital Dojo podcast, I chat with Emma Brown, fourth generation leader at Brown Brothers, one of Australia's most iconic family wineries. We talk about what it's like managing a 130-year-old legacy, navigating the nuances of running a family business, and evolving the brand in a market that's moving faster than ever.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

This episode is proudly brought to you by Food and Hospitality Week, a major event in Australia's hospitality calendar connecting 15,000 chefs, owners, and industry professionals every year. We have the amazing Emma Brown from Brown Brothers. A wine that is shared in so many Australian homes.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

It sure is, yes.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Congratulations on such a beautiful, beautiful business you guys have built.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure to be part of the show, but also um to be here representing our brand and particularly Zero Alcohol as a category in alcohol.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Phenomenal, phenomenal. Emma, you represent the fourth generation at Brown Brothers. What's it like balancing tradition with innovation in such a legacy brand?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah, it's a really good question. And we're really lucky. We've got 136 years of history behind us. And I don't think many family businesses now can say that. A, that they're still family-owned and operated, but also that they've got such a legacy behind them that's allowed them to push them into the future. And I do stand by that, that we have our history, and we're so proud of our history and the legacy that my great-grandfather, grandfather, dad, and uncles and cousins before me have built. But it really is our springboard in order to do things that are new and different. Like we've had 136 years of trial and error and failure and successes. That really it just motivates us to try new things and push more into the future from having that benchmark.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

And, you know, you being the head of innovation, how do you identify those opportunities? You know, if there are other business owners out there that are constantly competing with brands that are up and coming, um, you know, for Brown Brothers to be in the market for 136 years and to continue to pioneer after three or four years in some businesses, they feel like they get to that point of stagnation. Yeah. What's one piece of advice you'd give an operator who's who's in the product space that's trying to continually innovate?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

It sounds really simple, but I actually don't think it's done that often. And it's actually really focusing on the consumer, solely on the consumer. And I think many businesses, especially when you kind of do get to that kind of four or five-year mark, you start looking at your competitor set and you really kind of get a bit distracted by what your competitors are doing, versus actually saying, Who am I making products for or who am I servicing, and really have the consumer at heart. And I think that's really true for the wine industry in particular. Often you'll kind of say, Oh, I love that wine style, or I'm making it for me, or I'm making it to get awards, or hey, and a competitor is doing that style. But really, you have to hone it in and kind of say, What are people gonna love? And how do you make sure that you're creating something for people to love into the future and that they don't even know that they they need yet? And I think that's the most important part of being so consumer-centric, and it sounds so simple, but I actually don't think it's done every time. And I think it's as soon as people kind of lose their way of of kind of being distracted by the marketplace and take their eye off the consumer, that's when they really lose their way.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

And and when they're going down that path of of focusing on the consumer, there's an element of risk. How do you how do you best manage that risk of that you know, the trial and error phase? You know, there's there might be a lot of money you need to put into something, and then it could just completely tank, which I'm sure you guys have had that many times. How do you balance that risk and and make it financially feasible?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah, I think um a lot about innovation is having a a core as a foundation, and so really having a strong core that is kind of really your engine room, and then you can innovate off the back of that. And I think that's that sounds really easy to say, it's not as easy to actually kind of build, but we're really lucky that we've got a really core um kind of product, a really good reputation, that people do trust us when we put something new and different into the market, and trust is key. And I think rather than kind of always throwing spaghetti at the wall, making sure that you've kind of you've you're really kind of building that foundation and you you've got a bit of kind of guesstimation or at least um kind of uh a real insights base um when you're putting something to market. I think there's been a lot of successes of people just kind of throwing things out and trialing it, but I think you do have to have that that groundedness and that backing to really kind of have something that succeeds for the future.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

Well, you're you know, you guys are the perfect example of a not a one-hit wonder. Yeah, right? Yeah, and and build building a legacy is is is a thing, and and I believe people want to achieve that. And I truly find I like the common thing that I've heard with many hosts that have been here that have continually built a legacy is that it's never about the money, it's always about the consumer. Yeah, yeah, and it's about ensuring that you know the quality is there, the product is right, and then we make sure it's financially feasible later. But if you're going into something and saying, hey, I'm doing this to just make money, then you've got the wrong intention. Of course, if you're an entrepreneur, that that's what you want to do and you want to try things, but if the intention is to bleed people from their pocket and you profit the most, you're probably not going to get anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

And and you're not going in kind of with the the best intentions of the category that you're trying to build or the industry that you're trying to build. And I think that's really key, um, particularly for a family business and a business with legacy of making sure that you really are doing it for the right reasons and going in properly and supporting it for the long term. Like, absolutely, we've had failures, and my grandfather actually had a saying in the winery if you don't stuff up one wine every vintage, then you're try not trying hard enough. So we've certainly kind of seen failures throughout, but really celebrated them as well, and kind of saying you've got to continuously push the status quo, you've got to really kind of look outside the box, but do it the pro like, do it properly, make sure you're doing it kind of in the right way.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

That's amazing. That's a beautiful quote. That is uh, I'm gonna hold that one dear to me. That's a really good one.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

If you go into life and say, hey, if I don't stuff something up, then I'm not trying hard enough, then it's a really nice philosophy. It gives you real provision.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

It is, it gave me that just gave me goosebumps. That's crazy. Now, being in a family business, there are different nuances that you face day in and day out, complexities. What does leadership look like within that environment for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, it's a really good question, and you you're so right, and you've experienced it. Family businesses are complicated, and I think as soon as you I'm I'm part of the fourth generation, so we we now are a cousin generation.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

So you think my my father was third generation, he grew up in a household with his brothers, um, and they they kind of grew the same values under the same roof, and they kind of really only worked in the business. Like that was kind of their their pathway forward. We now as a fourth generation have ten cousins who didn't necessarily grow up under the same roof. We've all had kind of different life experiences, and we all have different interactions with the business. Three of us work full-time in the business, two work on the board, um, others work in kind of our family council. So there's a lot of different interactions within the business. But I think when you break it down, it's really about values, and it's making sure that you have those shared values and that you really kind of deliver to those values and that that really oozes throughout the business. And I think no matter what kind of interaction family have with the business, as long as those the business really kind of mimics the family, the family values, it's so important. It's not easy.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

It it isn't, it really isn't. And if there's someone that's listening to this podcast right now that is in a family business and you know they have those trying times or those trying moments of wanting to give up, what's one piece of advice you'd give them?

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Oh, I would say look to the future. Like there's always going to be those those blips and those um those times that you think this is really tough and is it really worth it? But I think you always have to look on and kind of say, hey, like the this isn't about me. Like this is a legacy, and I'm really, really lucky to be part of this legacy. Whether you're second generation, third generation, fourth generation, you do have to kind of reflect and say, Do you know what? Others have done it really tough before me and really put everything into this so it can be the business it is today. It's not about me, it's the legacy that I can pass on to the generations to come. And you really have to take a step back and get quite philosophical. Um, again, which isn't that easy, but um you really have to remove yourself and and the position that you you're kind of facing at that time and say, this is bigger than me. This is this is really about kind of a legacy that I I'm really lucky to be responsible for.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

And be a part of.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

And we're in Melbourne in our fantastic bus that we put together. That's pretty cool. You like it? Absolutely. I bet this is gonna be a good one. Yeah, no problem. We need it, we need a bottle of Brown Brothers here. We don't have that, unfortunately, but we'll get one from the stand. What brought you to Food and Hospitality Week this year?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah, absolutely. So this year we're actually focusing on our zero alcohol portfolio. And so we've been talking about innovation a little bit today. Um, this really has kind of um been a really emerging market within the Australian industry. We've obviously seen beer and spirits over the last few years really do quite well and deliver great zero alcohol options. Wine has been a little bit of a lagger in the category, and and we've really kind of tried hard on making sure that we're not only just coming into the category of zero alcohol in wine, that we're doing it particularly well and of the highest quality. So Brown Brothers maybe was a little bit later to the game in zero alcohol, but you'll see today um at the show we're showing zero alcohol that is of the same quality um of our full alcohol wines, and we're really proud of that. Um, zero alcohol is actually one of the fastest growing categories that's growing at 25% here in Australia. So it is here to stay. I think a lot of people kind of think zero alcohol, it's a fad. Um people aren't gonna really participate in it um kind of in the years to come. It's here to stay, and globally it's um it's it's just another alcohol category, really.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

And you know, you did mention something that you said that you were you were late to the game. On that though, you know, your your family's built such a foundation that we don't release something unless we truly back it. You're not just releasing it for the sake of just putting it out there to compete with others in the market. And and I stand by that because that's how you get proof of concept done right. Um, you're not knee-jerking, yeah. You know, you believe now, truthfully, that this is here to stay. Yeah, you've done your due due diligence, and I think that's a financially feasible way of taking you know, taking a calculated risk into a new category. Yeah, right. Absolutely. And especially something so different and left the field for your your your forefathers' uh legacy that they put behind, right? It's alcohol's always been in the mix, and now we're changing the entire profile. What's that? But now you've set the foundations yet again for a whole new category for the legacy to come. So I can't wait to see what that looks like for Brown Brothers.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Absolutely, and I think as a family business as well, like our name's on the label.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

And so we're not willing to put anything out to market that we're not proud of or that we won't put on our brand.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

Your brand is your personal brand. It's like it's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

And so we take that really seriously. Like, we're not going to put a shit bottle of wine on the table and say, just drink it, it's going to make us a whole lot of money. Like, we need to put our money where our mouth is, and we won't make a bottle of wine that we won't be willing to put on our own table with our own friends to enjoy.

SPEAKER_02 11:53

Do you find value in these events uh like these from a brand perspective?

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah, absolutely. And I think um yesterday was really interesting. So yesterday was the Sunday of the event. Um, a really great crowd, and I think a good mix between trade and actually consumers and other exhibitors coming over, and we found a lot of people like, oh, someone was just talking about that zero alcohol wine, I need to try it. So it's actually been a really diverse group of people. Um, I think today will be even even broader, um, particularly from a trade point of view, but just to really kind of um have people reassess, particularly for what we're showing today, zero alcohol. Um, I think a lot of people have a perception of what zero alcohol wine tastes like, and it's not necessarily a positive perception. And so this is a great opportunity for us to really kind of change people's opinions on zero alcohol wine, and no better way to actually put a glass in front of them and say, Have a taste tell us what you think. And um, we're getting such a positive response, and it's just it's a great environment out there, people are having a great time.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Yeah, it's a great buzz. These guys can't hear it that are tuning into the podcast, but outside it's phenomenal, there's activations happening anywhere. And if you're a brand that's launching and and you know you have a product that you you want to bring out to market, this is the perfect place to get feedback.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Absolutely. You know, really engaged audience and and plenty of people coming through. Right. And I I think everyone's being open open and honest as well, which is fantastic. Like, this is their game, then they know hospo, they know their consumer. Like you you really don't have a better environment to kind of get feedback.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

A thousand percent. My team have been collecting feedback all day um about you know how uh you know what's the purpose of the bus? Why'd you bring a bus in? And for us, you know, yeah, we have you've got stages all around, but when we want to have these deep dive conversations, we found that you know podcast guests need to get in a certain environment of silence. They need to be able to hear their own voice, and to do that in the exhibition hall is quite hard and it's quite challenging, but at the same time, we need to make it look aesthetically pleasing because you know we're surrounded by people in hospitality who appreciate you know design and appreciate function and details. So we can't go and do something, you know, half-assed basically, like you would with your wine.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Um so so you know, we we invested and we wanted to make sure that our our VIP guests like yourself get the opportunity to share your story in a comfortable environment in the middle of exhibition hall, and I think we managed to do that.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Oh, it's incredible, and I feel so privileged to be in here. I'm looking forward to the after party to have a glass of wine at this incredible bar. But um, it's a really cool concept, and you're doing a great job, so I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Thank you so much. Well, you're always welcome here at the Hospo Dojo. Uh, it's a privilege to have you on as a guest, and it's a core memory for me to say, hey, we've been able to sit and talk personally with someone from the Brown Brothers family. So every time we share that bottle of wine across the table, I can say I actually had a beautiful chat with uh with one of the founding members. Oh, with one, sorry, one of the legacy members, I'd love to say, Emma. Well, Emma, thank you so much um for today, and we look forward to seeing the New Zero Alcohol product.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Sensational and great work. Thank you so much for your support.