SPEAKER_01 0:00

In this episode of the Hospital Dojo podcast, I sit down with Kirsten Tibbles, one of Australia's most celebrated pastry chefs and chocolatiers. She's judged international competitions, represented Australia at the World Pastry Cup, founded the iconic Saver School, and inspired millions as the host of the Chocolate Queen. Kirsten opens up about her journey from a shy apprentice to a global ambassador for chocolate. We dive into her creative process, the discipline behind her craft, and what it really takes to stand out in the high-stakes world of pastry. This episode is proudly brought to you by Food and Hospitality Week, a major event in Australia's hospitality calendar connecting 15,000 chefs, owners, and industry professionals every year. Kirsten, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

No, thank you. You've done some amazing things over the years. Watching you a master chef and take over the world in chocolate. It's phenomenal to, you know, uh I always try myself try to surround myself with uh people with you know expanded knowledge and experience because you you can't beat experience, right? Years and years of practice.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

A lot of years, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

A lot of years, a lot of a lot of hard times in the kitchen. And I I always find that you know those that sharpen their knives the longest always have those one percenters that you can take away with you. So hopefully today we can get that out of you. I'm sure we will.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Oh beautiful. Kirsten, where did your chocolate love for chocolate begin?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Uh the I think the versatility of chocolate became apparent quite early on in my career. Not only does it make people happy, people love it, but it can be used as an ingredient, but it can also be used as a medium for sculpture and artistry and garnishes and things like that. So yeah, I think it was a versatility.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

And what, you know, what was it in you that said, I want to go into pastry, I want to be a chocolatier, I want to, I want to go into that world.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

I was actually um unwell as a teenager, so I didn't go to high school. So when I was well enough, I was 15, so I was old enough to start an apprenticeship, and I loved baking and cooking, so um not having really a high school education, um, but loving that aspect and artistry and creativity. Um, I started as soon as I physically could.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Oh, that's amazing. And when there must have been a moment in your early career when you started that you got that aha moment where you're like, oh, this is this can be something for life.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

I started a chef's apprenticeship actually, and I didn't get that aha moment. I thought, oh no, maybe I've chosen the wrong pathway. So I actually left the chef's apprenticeship.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

And what was that feel? What was that? What what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 2:58

I just felt that it was um more about bulk production and there wasn't. I apologize to all shit.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

No, no, no, no. You everyone has their own experiences.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

There wasn't, you know, I was peeling potatoes and washing herbs and which I think are base things that an apprentice should learn. But for me, I felt that I was really good at piping. I'd been decorating and selling cakes for many years at that stage. So I thought, no, this isn't for me. No. Um, I don't want to be cutting meat, I don't want to be cutting fish. So I left there and then decided to specialise in going to Patissery.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

There are a lot of people out there that struggle to take that step where they feel like the journey that they've stepped on is the only way they can move forward in life. They feel like they can't pivot. What was that inkling that made you pivot, or where did you find that strength to pivot?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Oh, I think I knew pretty much, you know, it wasn't I wasn't a long period as a chef's apprentice. It was a matter of weeks, and I thought, no, no, no, this isn't the right pathway. So um, I guess at that age, you you know, you don't have any um anything to hold me down or anything like that, or probably the responsibilities at the age of 15 that a lot of adults have to consider if they're looking at a career change. So, and it wasn't a complete career change, it was sort of a a set sidestep, if you like.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah, amazing. And where was your first you know, apprenticeship? Where were you where were you based first?

SPEAKER_00 4:36

I um did an apprenticeship at Schrader's Patissary and I stayed there for the duration of the apprenticeship, but it was a pretty hard slog. It was um many days starting at 2 a.m. till 10 p.m. Um, very little sleep, uh often six days a week. So um for most people today that's highly illegal, but um also a lot of people won't put that effort into you know a career path. But I was loving what I was doing, so and I was learning constantly and was given a big responsibility right from the start. So um, unlike where I started my shift's apprenticeship, I felt that I would have been chopping and you know, cutting and washing for a very long period of time before I was able to progress into anything else. Where with the petissary apprenticeship, I could basically straight away I had you know big responsibilities and I learned very quickly on the job.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

And fast forward now, you're dubbed the Queen of Chocolate, and you founded an amazing school called the Saver Chocolate and Petisserie School. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

And when was that founded?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

In 2002.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

So um quite a long while ago, so it's 23 years old this year, um, which I think the success of the business has been being nimble and adapting and changing to what people want because what the school started as and what it is today are two very different things.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

And what what do you what do you find? Well, obviously, like in 23 years of business, you've you've adapted to the times and you've moved with with what's worked. But what's amazing is that you've been able to hold that brand the entire time, you haven't pivoted from that. Where a lot of people just burn it and try start again, and burn it and try start again. It's a common thing in hospitality, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

I think it is, and I did consider expanding at one stage because we were just running seven days a week, days and nights. Um, I'm glad I didn't because I feel that I have more flexibility by just keeping the one site. Um, but I was able to expand the business by starting savor online classes, so which was a platform where we filmed one online class and released it every week. Uh, and we still do today, 13 years later, that really allowed us to tap into an international, a global audience, but also people who were time poor or money poor or couldn't physically come to do classes, it enabled them to learn from me, and now we've got 600 classes. We still add one recipe every week. So if people subscribe and it's not expensive, they instantly access everything, and I still personally answer all the questions.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

So that's amazing. How many students have you helped over your years? You have a number?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Thousands and thousands.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

That's phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

So many have opened businesses right across the world, but yeah, many, many people.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

That's such an inspiration. Like for me, a lot of people might not be able to relate, but for me, I've been on this journey as a food service consultant where I help people in their businesses and I design their amazing kitchens to help them better flow. And I found the same problem as you where people can't always afford a consultant. So we started a platform called Hospo Dojo, and that's to help sharpen the knives of young entrepreneurs to make the right decisions when they're starting their business. So whether they want to sign a lease or get into a partnership, what those agreements look like, right? From a from a business standpoint and what challenges they could face and their roadmap moving forward. So we had the idea of going online and doing courses online, and we've probably launched about 20 courses now, and it's challenging, it's very challenging. And for you to be able to do that week in, week out for 13 years, my gosh, that's phenomenal. Honestly, like hands down, there's more, there's more to people don't realize how much work goes behind the camera.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

And no, I I have a team of uh four full-time people that are from copywriters to photographers to videographers, editors, um, pastry chefs that you know, I write the recipe, they test, we test and test and test, because that's the other thing people don't realise is that when you're guiding people or giving them advice, I need to ensure that I'm giving you the world's best recipe in that area and that I've thoroughly tested it. I can tell you where the you know weaknesses are where you have to be careful and what to look out for. Um, but we do all that. We can test a recipe 30 times before it's filmed.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

That's amazing. You should be like, I know, I know sometimes we we get desensitizer, but sometimes you I learnt I learnt this from Morgan McLean, who's a chef who started Bill's fried chicken. And he said, Paul, if there's one thing that I could teach you on your journey is just to stop, take a breath, and just embrace the moment that you that you've done. And and we we forget to do that over the time. So, you know, today before you get on stage and and start judging, just stop and take a breath and go, Look, look at all the amazing work that I've done. So I hope I hope you get that moment sometime today.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Thank you. I do think you um when you get to that pinnacle or that critical point in your career, it's almost like being a hamster on the wheel. That if you step off the wheel, people like, oh Kristen, who? And and I think when you're in the constant innovation development stage, you create some of your best work that you ever will. So uh for me, you know, it's very few breaks and it's um quite intense work, but you know, I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

That's amazing. Where do you draw your inspiration from your most beautiful designs?

SPEAKER_00 10:50

I draw them, so I try not to be inspired by other chefs or other people's work. I try to either be inspired by real life things or from nature itself. Um, so probably different to what most people do. I look at what the visual aspect looks like, and then I know with my skill set I can add and make that into anything in terms of flavor and texture, but how it looks and how we sell and market what we do. I work with many different companies and create concepts for them. You have to draw people in within, you've only got three seconds, so that product has to look sensational. So yeah, I'll draw lots of pictures and develop, and then I'll allocate the different textures, flavours, um, elements to that recipe.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

That's that's amazing. And what do you think is one misconception people have about working with chocolate?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

I think people think it's hard to temper and that it can be difficult to work with. I think if you work with a good quality chocolate, it can be an amazing experience and really enjoyable. There is, like in most ingredients, you can get your um, you know, beautiful chocolates that melt um perfectly, and then you've got your chocolates that are cheaper, that have very little fat, and that are thick and viscous and absorb moisture because of the amount of sugar in them and can be very challenging to work with.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Look out for the fat content. Yeah, well, and you've mentored chefs globally now. What are the qualities you think great pastry chefs share?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

I think that they have a need to learn, and I think we learn from mistakes and we learn from testing and development, and we don't learn from copying. You can uh try someone else's recipe, but I think that successful people are people who are passionate and they don't work eight hours, they work 12 plus.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

That's big, and and everyone that I've sat in the room with who is successful has always said that to me. Yes, they always scream about work-life balance and making sure your health comes first, but there's there's no forgiving when when it takes the reps in order to get something done right. Like you can't just bec you you can't do something overnight, you need to do the hours. It's a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Yeah, it needs to be a natural extension of yourself, almost what you're doing, uh a technique, you need to have done it enough that it flows through your body into the food.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yeah, muscle memory, one thousand percent. And doing it with your heart and soul. Yes. If you don't passionately love it, then it's not it's not for you, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

And I think what people forget is that, especially in today's society, people invest in you. They're investing in, for me, it's a recipe. So they would then buy a g equipment and ingredients to recreate that recipe, but it's the same if you go to a patisserie or a restaurant, people are investing in you, and you have a big responsibility to then give them the best possible experience with your food, and you need to put whatever you can into that food to ensure that happens.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

If there's a pastry chef listening to this podcast right now, and the young pastry chef that you were once upon a time when you were first early on in your career, you're still quite young now, but uh I meant early on in your career. I so please don't take that in the wrong way. I meant just early on early on in your career. What's one piece of advice you'd give them if they're at that that standpoint in that, you know, they're about to it's like you know when you're chipping away at at the iceberg, as they say, and it's just it's just right there. And they're just chipping, chipping, chipping, and they're not seeing anything fruitful. What's one piece of advice you'd give them?

SPEAKER_00 14:55

You have to continually learn to evolve. If you stop learning, you need to change career paths. I think that's the most important thing. A lot of people almost have a sense of entitlement and they have a closed mind that the way they're doing something is the best way. But you should always try an alternate method of doing something and then work out what's the best way, or you know, put the two together, create a hybrid because everything we do, if I look at what I was doing at the start of my career, which is over 30 years ago, and what I'm doing now, that's evolved and changed so much. Where if I was stuck in my ways and wasn't open to learning, I would have been well and truly left behind.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

That's powerful. That is so powerful. Now, looking forward for you, what's your next big ambition? What haven't you done yet?

SPEAKER_00 15:47

I have my own TV show, The Chocolate Queen. I've written three cookbooks, one professional, two for uh chocolate inspiration, non-professional books. I think for me, um I'm I have a farm, so the next big thing for me is to look at growing and producing as much of my own produce as I can and becoming more seasonal. I'm building a kitchen there that is at the properties 100% off-grid, so we catch our own water, we process our own waste, we produce our own electricity, so we're independent. But I really like the idea of that and focusing on ingredients that are sustainable and um seeing that how I can evolve with that. I still love what I do, the creativity, the television, you know, the radio. Um, I'll probably still keep doing cookbooks, but I think that that is an area of the future of food, really. We need to look at how it grows, best practice, what is seasonal, and just work with seasonal produce rather than importing something from Mexico or California because we have we want to use something that's not in season. Um, so that that is something that I'd really like to focus on.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

That's amazing. And while while you're on that journey and building that kitchen, I would love to honestly just if you ever needed any help or just input on design, you could just literally we'll give you access to my my number and my email, and I'd love to jump on a workshop and just give it a help. I would really love it.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

I'm in the I've actually we've been building it, would you believe, for four and a half years.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

I believe you.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

And um we're actually in the the final stages.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Final stages um where is it well you don't have to be.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

It's in the Yarra Valley. Okay. So it's in the Yerra Valley on 126 acres. Um, it's absolutely, you know, it it inspires me to go there and be there. Um, you know, and I imagine um I we just built yesterday a beehive and put that together, you know, and we'll have a chicken coop. And doing all of this um really makes me happy, and I think that that is what people need to consider. Um going forward, it's going to become probably one of the biggest considerations when developing recipes and food.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

That's so amazing. I would love to visit you. Thank you so much. And I uh yeah, we'd love to bring you a welcoming gift and a and a an opening gift for you for your kitchen. So uh it's been a pleasure to have you here. I know you're on a tight schedule and you managed to fit us in. Um you're an inspiration to many people. Uh you've certainly inspired me. I'm even tearing up now with with all the amazing stuff you said, and I'm just like tuning in and absorbing so many things. So thank you so much for your time, uh, your energy, your passion for the industry. And uh yeah, I can't wait to see see what the future holds for you.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Uh thanks for having me on, Paul.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Thank you.