SPEAKER_00 0:00

How you started in the industry. Give us a little bit of a rundown. I got into hospitality at 12 years old, washing dishes, helping the chef, you know, cutting onions. And I just walked into a place and said, give me a job.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

The biggest factor for me when I was transitioning was a support network. My wife knows what I'm going to go through. She's backing me.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

That's all I need. If you don't have a dream, if you don't understand where you want to go, it doesn't matter who supports you or who does support you, but you've got to support yourself. That's the number one support, yourself.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

What's one piece of advice you would give to someone who is on the journey to starting their business right now? On this episode of the Hospital Dojo podcast, I'm joined by Johnny DiFrancesco, chef and founder of the Gradi Group, known for the iconic 400 Gradi in Melbourne and plans to expand globally. In 2014, Johnny made history as the first Australian to win the title of Best Peter in the World. We dive into his journey from washing dishes at twelve years old to building a multi-venue empire, how he pivoted into manufacturing during COVID, and the mindset it takes to lead with passion, stay humble, and grow with adversity. From building a strong team culture to managing family in the business. This episode is full of real, unfiltered insight from one of hospitality's most driven leaders. Johnny Distafano? Different. Today is actually a very, very casual podcast. Since we've been driving around Melbourne, we thought how can we, you know, bring something to the viewers that uh that's a little different. And I feel like Melbourne's hospitality scene is for me a benchmark in Australia. And you know, especially with you being on Ligon Street, it's like the epicenter for Italian food, right? Um I'm at the wrong end though. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

You still I always say I'm at the better end.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Ligon Street's Ligon Street, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

And um I just always feel like Melbourne's got this beautiful culture, is always very accepting of anyone. Uh you can feel like you can be yourself everywhere, and it translates through the hospitality as well. Like wherever you go, even if they don't like you, they make you feel special. Very true. You know, I've done that today. I've got to go.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

No, I'm trying to no, you're right. I think um hospitality probably in Melbourne has probably the benchmark across um uh Australia. But to be honest with you, I I actually think even across the world, you know. I mean, I've you know I travel often and I've seen you know hospitality around the world. I think we've got we've got a really good service model, which is um uh, you know, probably between that American and European, where we're in between, so we're not too far sort of left afield, and we're not too um, and all my European friends are gonna hate me for this, but we're not we don't give arrogant service, which is which people love. Um, I think yeah, that Melbourne really pride themselves on that.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah, I think especially like you know, I've always said I said this to my wife openly, if Melbourne had Sydney weather, we'd move here, I'd move here in a heartbeat. That's the only thing, and I guess if you've lived in Sydney, yeah, it's sort of hard to move out from there, you know, because of for me anyway, the weather is a big, especially when I'm asthmatic. Uh, Melbourne doesn't do the best to me. But yeah, um, yeah, I think that's the only thing that's missing is the weather. Yeah, but what is amazing is if Sydney had Melbourne weather, hospitality would cripple. Because our diners, right? Our diners don't like going out in the rain and cold. Where you guys, you have this culture, you put a coat on and you just keep marching.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

You know, rain, hail, shine, hail, whatever the whatever the shit's going on, we're going for dinner.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Right? And that's and that's it, that's a great culture. And I find that Sydney lacks that. And no matter what anybody says, I'll say that open-heartedly, but John, I just wanted to get into sort of a bit of your background, how you started in the industry. And you know, a lot of people probably don't know this. Well, some I know a lot of people know this, but some of our viewers don't, but you're a world, you're a world champion. You're a world champ. So give us a little bit of a rundown.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

So, how do I start? Look, I've been I've been in the industry since I was 12. Um, grew up in a really low uh you know socioeconomy. Yeah, right. So I was really yeah, struggled, you know, and we had whatever we wanted, we had to, you know, fend for ourselves. So um I got into hospitality at 12 years old, washing dishes, helping the chef, you know, cutting onions, like you know, little things. Was it a family restaurant? No, no, so I just walked into a place and and said, give me a job. Yeah, and um, and I think the guy just felt sorry for me and gave me a chance. And so yeah, I was doing that, and you know, a lot of people say, Oh, you know, I got into hospitality because I love food. I at that at 12 years old, you don't love food, right? I don't know, I don't I just eat, didn't understand really why I wanted to do it. All I knew that I is was that if I wanted something, I had to work for it and pay for it myself. So um fast forward to 19 years old, got into engineering. Well, um, and dropped out after one one day of school. One day of school, yeah. Which uni did you go to? It was uh Vic. Okay, and and I was like, I'm out of here. This is I'm it was actually electronics engineering. I was uh I was looking at the listening to lecture and he's talking about transistors and resistors, and I was like, nah, I can't do it. So I packed my bags and went back to the restaurant and asked for a full-time job and and probably did another probably year, and that's when I opened up my own place. You know, I guess straight after.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

At 19, you were 20, you opened up your own place. Yeah. Did you travel and work anywhere else before that, or did you just in Melbourne?

SPEAKER_00 6:18

No, I'm I'm pretty much, you could say, apart from all the places that I worked at, because I I did work at a lot of places from 12 to 19 because I would I'd learn from people and I'd be like, after a few months, I'm bored, I I already know this, so I would move on to something else and learn something else and just keep on going that way. And yeah, and then at 19, I just decided, you know what, I'm gonna do this for myself. Self-taught, really. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Between those tender ages of 12 to 19, who's one instrumental person that you had uh as a boss, as a colleague, that sort of gave you that that push to keep going, or maybe gave you like that guidance?

SPEAKER_00 6:56

It's a good question because like from 12 to 19, I probably didn't have anybody. It was more of a personal drive. I had this uh burning desire that I wanted to be um like I when I was a kid, I would always, you know, lay in bed and you know, I've always been like a pretty bad sleeper, you know, always thinking, my mind doesn't stop. And I you know, you know, as a kid, I'd be thinking, you know, things like, you know, I don't want to be, you know, ordinary, I want to be extraordinary. That's what I would say to myself when I was a kid. And and I think that that's what pushed me to get into business because I've always had a business mind, I've always enjoyed this commercial challenge. Yeah, I just enjoy it, I enjoy it, I enjoy that side of it. Um, but my probably my passion for um the industry probably started around 17. That's when I really like thought this is what I want to do. Well, you know, this is what I what was it?

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Like, what was that turning point? Was it a service or was it a customer or was it was it someone?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

No, I was working at a really busy restaurant and I and I just enjoyed the hustle and bustle of it, and you know, and and working with other older people and you know, uh being slapped around and stuff, you know, sort of made you feel like you know, this is real, this is the real world. You know, so I grew up pretty fast. You know, like I was 17, I probably felt like I was 30 already with with the hours and the time that I was doing and the experience that I was gaining. Um, it was like I was you know fast for yeah, fast tracking everything, you know, like I can relate to that a lot. Yeah, you know, I would I would do things even in my own business that you know are coming on trend now. I was doing it 15 years ago, and and people make make massive deals about what's happening now, and I and I'm looking at I was doing that 15 years ago and I was being told that it was shit. Right, you know, and now it's all on trend and and things happen. And I've got people that have been working for me for a long time, like even my best mate still works for me, and and he says, Johnny, you were doing this 15 years ago, you're doing this 10 years ago, and and and his name's Johnny as well. And I say, Yeah, I know, we were too far ahead of our time for people to understand. And it was like when we opened here, like when we opened Gradi, um, what ye did you open, Grady? 2000 2008, we opened. Um, and I opened only for one reason is because my dad's from uh Casata, which is the um the Campania region near Naples. Um, before he died, he'd always talk about, oh, I missed the pizza in Napoli, I missed the pizza in Napoli, you know, and and I thought he passed away and I said to my wife, I'm I'm taking some time off, I'm going to Naples, I need to understand what you know what my dad was talking about. So I fly over to Naples, get into Naples, jump in the cab, didn't even go to the hotel. I just said to So how old were you at this point? At that point I was 29. So I'd already been in business for about 10 years, 10 years. So you you had closed all your businesses or sold them, whatever the case may be at that time? Yeah, so from nine, uh from actually 21 to about uh 29, I was running seven businesses. I had seven takeaway um pizzeria. Okay, they're all doing really well. Um got sick of it, became a became a sort of uh, you know, just repetitive, repetitive thing every day. And but in saying that I learned a lot from that, and I can explain about what I learned from that later on because I think that was I call that that was my real business apprenticeship. Wow. Um, but yeah, I just sold off businesses and um travelled to Naples, come back, and I said, I know what I want to do. How long were you in Naples for?

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Um a couple of months. And how do you manage to network? Like you've never been there before, you you know, you're a business owner, so you had to just like shut up, humble yourself, and learn from some of the best.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Yeah, the thing was that is when I got into Naples and I said to the cab driver, he said, Oh, where are you going? I said, Um, just take me to a pizzeria. And straight out of the airport, and he said, You know, are you going to a hotel? Or and I said, No, no, because I had luggage, and I said, No, no, I want to go to a pizzeria. So he dropped me off somewhere and um it was across the road to the most uh well actually he took me to Miguel, but it was closed. So Miguel, Damikele is the most famous pizzeria in in Naples. It was closed, so I went to the one across the road, and I went in and I said, Oh, can I get a margarita? And I didn't know what to expect then. And when it came to the table, I was like, Holy shit, what's this? And pizza wasn't cut, I cut it. As soon as I put that first piece in my mouth and I bit on it, uh, it for me it was like it was like love at first sight. Well, honestly, like I I was freaking out. You know, I straight away get onto the phone and talk to my wife and say, Man, this piece is unbelievable, etc. etc. So then I started hunting around and and I um came across um the the association in in Naples, made connections through there, went and uh did a course with them. Um, and it was it was like I had to forget everything I learned. Like how hard was that for you? Oh, it was it was humbling because it was nice to see something different, yeah. You know, going there and thinking, you know, I mean, I had some busy places, and and going there and seeing something different and wanting to learn something different and learning from scratch and having to forget everything that you've already learned. For me, it was it was like erase everything now from your mind, forget about it. Like, and that's not easy, man.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Like you you were married at the time, yeah, gene kids. Like, that's a lot on the line to just go, hey, oh everything I know, just piss it off. Yep, and I'm starting again. And you know, there's a lot of people that listen to this that are at this sort of transition or this turning point, and you know, it could be with anything in life, whether it be hospitality, whether it be finance, we've got viewers from all over, but they just find this podcast very relatable. How would you, you know, what was one technique that you dealt with that sort of transition? I know in my life, the the biggest factor for me when I was transitioning was a support network, and I didn't need like a big support network. I knew that, okay, my wife knows what I'm gonna go through, she's backing me, that's all I need. If she's backing me, she knows what we're about to go on, yeah, that's sweet. And I feel like when you you said it too, you picked up the phone and you called your wife, you said, that's it. You know, so how would you, you know, if somebody doesn't have that support network, and this is something that I struggle with because I was blessed to have one, how would you deal with it? Or, you know, what's one piece of advice you'd give to someone that's trying to do that transition?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

I think first and foremost is you need to follow your dream. You know, people say, Oh, don't follow your dream, you know. Like I listen to a lot of people, and they say, Oh, you know, your dream is not necessarily what is gonna make you successful, but you need to dream. If you don't have a dream, if you don't understand where you want to go, and you you need to plan it out in your head, you know, and and and it doesn't matter who supports you or who does support you, you've got to support yourself. That's the number one support, yourself, right? And and the way I plan things out is I look at where I want to be and I plan backwards. I don't plan from where I am. You reverse engineer it. I do, yeah. Reverse engineer the whole thing because I know where I want to go or I know I know where I need to get to. And but but most people don't understand the steps to take to actually get to where you want to get to. So the best way to do it is okay, have a finishing point, or actually, there's no finishing point, have a point to where you think you want to be, and probably add another 50-60% on top. Because even if you don't get there, you're already satisfied with wherever you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Yeah, we do like in our house, we have a little whiteboard on the fridge. Yep. And I do we do monthly goals, and there are some months where I don't necessarily have the drive, or sometimes I'm just so stressed, where you know, Jess will go off and she'll write the goals for the month and go, that's what we're fucking chasing. You know, and it's just like that simple goal setting is what's allowed me anyway to grow in my space. Yeah, and that's what I find like that I'm relating to you is you're you're pretty much goal setting. You're setting, but you're setting goals that are achievable, you're not setting unrealistic things. Yeah, we can dream and have this massive vision, but I think the way to get there is that you need to set realistic goals. Yeah, you need to work hard, and you might need to hustle and bustle your way through, yeah, but they're the ones that are achievable, right? Like they're the things that like you knew that this is a pizza that I want. Uh, maybe you couldn't work in that restaurant, but you found the registered authority that is in Naples, yeah, and you paid the course and you learn under them for a month. Correct. You know, so it's like, okay, now I've accomplished that. Then what was next for you after you went to uh after Naples?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Then I I came back to Australia, I found this site, and for me that that was it. It was like this was the first site, yeah. It was the first site. Everything was like just fell into place. Yeah, it was it was really strange the way it happened. Um, I ended up selling uh my second last business that I was selling, yep, and the agent said, Oh Johnny, you know what what do you want to do next? And I said, I know what I want to do, I just need to find a site. Um, he then calls me about three days later and said, I found a site for you in on Ligon Street Brunswick. And he told me the site and I said, I know this site because this used to be an old video shop. I used to come here and get videos as a kid, right? So I drove past and I said, Yeah, this is I'll this is the site I want. So was it like a blockbuster or a video easy? No, it was um video 3000. It was yeah, it was like an independent, yeah. Um, but what you see today is not what it was, it was only a 48-seater. Um, you know, we had yeah, 48 seats inside, um, probably 20 outside, and that was it. And what was your menu at the time? Menu was um look pretty similar to what we do now. You know, we're always doing you know, kitchen food and also pizza, um, but predominantly we were concentrating on the pizza side of it because that's what you know, that's what I my passion was for. Strangely enough, you know, when I started doing Napolitan pizza in in Melbourne, people didn't understand it. Really? And yeah, this is why I say I was always too ahead of my time.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

So, what year exactly was this open again?

SPEAKER_00 17:30

2008. Nobody knew Napolitan pizza. Well, like to the point where people would call What was the pizza in Melbourne at the time? Italian pizza. So people would say wood fire pizza was Italian pizza. It was thin, it was crispy, a little bit of topping on there. Oh, that's Italian pizza. That's that's what was was known. Then I came out with this Napolitan pizza with a cognizione that's a little bit higher, you know, a little bit of topping, it's a bit soft and pliable. And and people would not relate to it because they were like, oh, what's this, what's this, what's this? So, probably first 18 months, um, I would literally go home every night crying. Like I'll get in my car and I'd be like, What have I done? I had a really successful business that I got rid of, and I've followed my dream, and I'm 18 months in, and I'm on the brink of either I close it, and I and because I always kept one of my other businesses, I either close it and just go back into that one and concentrate on that, but I just kept pushing, and you know, this is this is where I think um, you know, planning and and realizing your dream, there's there's also another thing that kicks in if you're in desperation. Like I and I say this to people, and a lot of people don't understand, but I always say I run my business like I'm about to go broke at the end of the month, right? And I still do that today. What does that mean? It means that I'm 24 hours on. I'm always thinking about it, I'm always thinking how can we improve it? Because everyone can improve their business no matter how long you've been in it. You can be in it for 50 years, there's always someone that'll bring fresh eyes to it. And how many stores do you have now? Now we have uh seven here in Australia and a couple overseas. Whereabouts? Uh the US. Where? In Texas, Dallas, Texas. Wow, why Texas? Oh, licensee was from uh Texas, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

That's amazing. And are the other stores around here licensed or are they all yours? They're all ours.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Yeah, except except for Adelaide, so our interstate store, we um we just uh licensed that one. Yeah, and our Miljura store, uh which is out in Victoria, country, country, Victoria, that's um that's licensed as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

And it's interesting you said the word license, because people get confused licensing with franchise. Yeah. Why'd you choose the license route?

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Um people get people get a bit funny about the word franchise, but when you really think about it, they they pretty much do the same thing. Um, you know, there's there's some uh some differences, but not that many. Responsibility is still there. Um people think you license the business and see you later, see you later. It's not the case. You actually work harder, you actually work harder for the licensees as well. You know, like we got a team behind us that you know looks after licensees and makes sure, you know, make sure that they're you know reaching their goals and etc. etc. So it's um yeah, it's it's it's not a bad business model, but it, you know, it's not for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

It's a different kettle of fish.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

And you know, for me, I've always found right now in this market, you know, if you're at the stage where you want to grow your business and you're still that hungry owner operator like Johnny He, I think, you know, a license model is a great stepping stone. Um, if you look into it, obviously you talk to your legal team, you talk to your accountants and whatever to get that right advice, whatever that is. Uh, but I find like the entry to market to be able to grow with the right operating partner on the other end, I think that's the key to success. That's right. To licensing, right? Franchises, you're buying a job.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

I think licensing to me is like you're, you know, you're buying a business. Yeah. But you're in there, in the guts, operating. That's where I've seen it succeed. Yep. If you think, especially in this day and age with the way the market's going, the way food costs are, labour costs, if you think you can just turn on the lights, invest half a million dollars, and every money's just gonna come roll in with a beautiful fit out, it doesn't work. It doesn't work, right? Not at all. You need to work the business, you've got to be hospitable. Correct. And I think that's where that's where your key to success I've seen, and I just feel with your staff anyway, just by walking here on on first glance, everyone's invested into the vision. Yeah. You know? What's you know, well, I want to circle back to um Your 21 to 28. When you were 21 to 28, and you you grew to seven stores that you're own operating, they're like takeaway pizza joints.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

How did you, you know, we we learned how you got the inkling to just go because you're a go-getter. But how did you have the mindset and the capability to run seven at a time? What was something you know instrumental to that success?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

I just I think it's it's more about um perseverance, you know, like I've got this thing that uh if I get in in my head something that I want to do, uh you know, at all costs I'm gonna get it done. Um no matter what it means, if I gotta work 24 hours, I'll work 24 hours, it's it's fine. Um but you know, people were always saying to me, Oh, you're so young, why are you opening so many stores? Whatever. It wasn't because I wanted to open a lot of stores, it was more I I got satisfaction out of seeing something grow, nothing grow to what it was. And to be honest with you, from 21 to 29, I said before it was my apprenticeship. I made shitloads of mistakes.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

I paid for all those mistakes. What was the biggest mistake? What was your biggest financial mistake? Man, I if you copped one, if you thought of one that just goes, ouch, what I learned from it.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

I learned I learned early on that people are not who they are or what they perceive to be. You know, and I'm talking about professionals, you know. At that point, um, you know, I had legal advisors and accounting advisors, and it was all about them. It wasn't about me, it wasn't about trying to help, you know, this business grow. It was how much can we extract from this business? And that was one big lesson. Um, I mean, I, you know, um one financial mistake probably cost me, you know, just under a million bucks, and I was only like you know 25 years old. That hurt. Right? Um, but I learned from that. So I say, oh yeah, I paid my education, I paid for it. I paid for it in real time. I didn't sit in in a classroom or in a in a you know in a lecture hall and listen to a uh you know a guy telling us what to do and what not to do. I actually lived it, breathed it, burnt it, burnt it, breathe, got built it, you know, the whole lot. Like I went through and but today, what that did, it moulded me into what I'm doing today. I learned that in business, systems are extremely important. A lot of a lot of chefs, a lot of um business operators don't understand that. Right? Don't understand that. I get a lot of staff that come and work for me, and oh, why do we have to go through this, all these protocols, all these, because this is what makes a business successful. And then I get people that leave and then ring me and say, fuck man, like now I understand because I've gone into this business and they have no idea what they're doing, and now I'm finding it difficult.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

And do you think that's like a bit of the engineering mindset that you've got? Like you, even though you you you went to it, but yeah, you didn't like it. But the way that I'm looking at it is you know, you've got to have a knack for things naturally, yeah. And I think you know, the way that you structure yourself is you're very systematic, you have a methodology, you have an approach to everything, whether you know what that approach is there, and then you're not sure, but you know that you've got to work it out.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah, and it'll change a thousand times over. Like, I I I um I'm very reactive, and my staff, you talk to any of my staff, they'll tell, man, he's reactive. Like, oh if I don't like something right now, that change it. Change it, that's it. Like, but but we need to go, I don't care, change it. So you you say you're not proactive, you're more reactive? Or um probably both, but I'm very reactive on things that I I can really see something that may affect the business, and I can change it, you know, really fast.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Okay, this is where I get confused sometimes with reaction versus knee jerking. Have you heard the term knee jerking?

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I don't knee jerk. Okay, yeah, there's no knee-jerking in it. Because you know, someone might say something to you and knee jerk it? No, never. I I no no, I don't do that. I'm very okay, so I'll sit here and if there's 10 people in the room, I'll be the quietest one and I'll listen. And I'll take all the all the info. But most of the time you won't even hear me um give back any any suggestions. But I'll I'll listen, I'll take everything on, and then I walk away, and then I fizzle out the bullshit and I execute the things that I know that are gonna work, but I'm really fast at executing. So I you know, I'll give you an example. I got into manufacturing during COVID, right? Um I would do manufacturing. Yeah, I manufacture um uh ready-made meals, pizzas, all that sort of stuff, right? So, and and I had to do that because restaurants were closed here for a long time, and so it just started from me making some pizzas and putting them into a cryback bag and selling them down the road. I I found a little place up the road, uh, filled it up with pallets of stuff, and we're just selling things, whatever we could, right? Anything, bags of flour. I was doing online uh online courses, I was doing everything I could just to survive, right? That business, I turned that business into something that has actually outgrown my restaurants in four years. But it's it's been me being very reactive on things. Like, you know, I've I don't know, I've I've got I've got a manufacturing facility now that when we started was 600 square meters, we've got into 7,000. Wow. Right? So, you know, and and it's it's it's really grown into I I call that a business. See, this is my passion. Like I don't look at my restaurants as my business anymore. I I love my restaurants because I love, for me, I get more satisfaction when someone gets a pizza, bites into it and and and you know has that wow reaction. I I'll give you that pizza for free. I don't even want your money. Because for me, that's my satisfaction. My business is what I'm doing right now in manufacturing. It's different. You know, it's it's it's a completely different ball game, two different two different worlds, two different worlds, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

And you know, pivoting from restaurants to manufacturing, but maintaining these restaurants, the brand, um how do you navigate like see a lot of people what happens is when they see the grass greener on the other side, they lose focus on what actually got them there in the first place. How do you continue to humble yourself? Because now you're desensitized to numbers, like when you're talking a 600 square meter uh factory to 7,000 square meters, like that's big numbers, yeah, right? And you're desensitized to the volume, like gone from the days of doing two, three hundred pizzas a night here, now you're producing a thousand pizzas every couple hours down there. How do you in your in your mind, you know, because people come across those challenges where they run a restaurant, then they go to an event. This is what kills me all the time. They have this buzzing restaurant, and then they get hit up. Hey, I want you to fly here, I want you to do this event. Here's 20 grand, come and do it. Yeah, they see this big paycheck for a week's worth of work, right? How do you manage to sort of keep humbling yourself and de like, even though the numbers are desensitized, how do you still keep that focus on the business? Because at the end of the day, you could be making all the money in the other business, but if this is bleeding, you're screwed.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Like I said earlier, I run my business like I'm about to go broke at the end of the month. That's how I keep myself true and real. That's fucking fun. I don't, I'm not, I don't forget about my everything that I do, not one of them gets neglected. Because I'm I'm I'm on all the time. All the time. You know, I'll give you an example. Two Saturdays ago, I was walk- I was driving past you, I don't know why. Stop the car, come inside, manage. What are you doing? Nothing. I'm just gonna come and help. And they what are you gonna do? I'll stay on the pass. You guys look after the customers, I'll look after the kitchen. That it's when it's in you and you really love what you're doing and you believe, you know, in what you're doing, and that's why before I said, you know, people say, Oh, you know, you your dreams don't really become your success. That's that's probably true for some people. But if you dream hard enough, it can become your success. But you gotta dream really hard, you know, because it's not like, oh, you know, I'd love to, I'd love to do um, I don't know, I'd I'd I don't know, something like oh, I'd love to travel the world, and that's what is that a realistic dream? Because you need something to get you to the point where you travel the world. So traveling the world isn't a dream, that it's something that you would like to do. It's not a dream, right? So you dreams need to be to monetize the dream, needs to be something that you really believe in and you can achieve. That's all it is, and and that's that's how I've I've um done it all the time. You know, like did I think I was ever going to become in you know a manufacturer? Never. Not even, it wasn't even in the back of my mind. It happened because of the situation we were in, but then I saw an opportunity that you know what, I actually I I enjoy it. I I like seeing the product become better and better and better and better. And also for me, getting to manufacturing wasn't I want to do a lot of numbers, no, I want to lift the quality that's in the supermarkets. So I that's my purpose. My purpose is okay, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna manufacture pizzas or lasagna or sauces or whatever I'm doing. I want it to be the best on the shelf. So I'm always running with that mindset. It's like when we did pizzas, I want to do the best pizza, I want to have the best pizza. Now, the best pizza for me might be one thing, and then someone hasn't, it's not the best. That's fine. You know, you said something before, oh you know, uh he's a world champion. What does that mean? Like, you know, people say to me, Oh, you won the world championship. How do you feel? I don't feel anything because I was only the best on that day. Doesn't mean that I was the best in the world. I was just the best on that day. The judges enjoyed what I gave them, but guess what? There were thousands of other people that were in that room competing that were just as good as me, if not better, because they still had the same passion, because they were there trying and trying to achieve a dream to win this competition. So the person that went before me and the person that went after me, I think that they were just as good as me. So it doesn't, you know, so that's a different, that's a different achievement. You know, that becomes for me, that was two achievements. One, obviously a personal achievement because self-validating is sort of self-validating, you know, oh yeah, I, you know, then I know what I'm doing, I really enjoy what I'm doing. Second, I put Australia on the map. That was more satisfying for me. 100%. Do you know what I mean? Like people across the world didn't thought that we would eat, we were eating pizza hard or whatever it is, or dominoes. That's what they thought until that happened. And you started the movement. Started the movement, and you know, I don't know, people might not agree with you or whatever, but I believe, you know, a lot of the pizzeries out there, I mean, a lot of people that have opened Napolitan Pizza have either learned from me or or worked for me. But I I feel proud of that, I feel connected to that.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

And how do you continue to strive to mentor people like that? In that you know that when someone walks in the door, they've got a potential to go out and grow, go out on themselves. The same way that you learnt between 12 and 18. You know, how do you feel on that journey when you when you mentor someone?

SPEAKER_00 34:20

I'm I'm happy for them. But you know, and and I always give honest advice. Like if someone comes to me and says, Johnny, I want to open up a pizzeria, what do you think? Say, why are you opening the pizzeria? I want to make money. Don't open a pizzeria. What do you mean? Because people think opening a business is gonna make you, you know, um, or give you an instant a great life. Actually, if you want to have the first 10 years of your first business career um bring you to a point of break breaking point, and you know that you've got the um the resilience to and the drive to break a break through that, do it. But if you know, and I always say, are you happy not to make money for the first three, four years? I can't do that, then don't open a business. If someone says to me, Oh, I'm happy to try, you know, and and do it, great. Then then as long as you go in with a mindset that maybe I'm not gonna make money for the first two, three years and you still want to do it, do it because you might make money from day one. Doesn't mean that you're not going to, but you need to understand that maybe you won't. You actually probably won't. It happened to me. I opened here 18 months, man. I like like I said, I'm not kidding. I'd I'd get in my car and I'd drive home and I'd be crying to myself thinking, what the fuck have I done? You know, I I left I left something that I'd built over nine years and you know it was it was good. I was making a living, you know, everything was great to come to this because you're passionate about it. Because I was passionate about it, and now now I'm bleeding and and and I I'd get home and you know not show that I was uh emotionally drained. It it business takes a lot out of you, but and you need to be really be able to um um persevere and accept it.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

What's if we you know if I had your younger self right in front of you now, literally, that 21-year-old that was about to go start into business is sitting in front of you where that where that camera is right now. If you look down the barrel of the camera, what's one piece of advice you'd give to your 21-year-old self?

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Hire people better than you, man. Because that will make you hire people that are better than you but are scared to do it for themselves, but they're not scared to do it for someone else because there's no risk on them, and get them to help you through the journey. A good person can bring you up, a bad person can destroy you, and and people are are probably the hardest um part of this business because we are in the people business, we're in the people business with people sitting down in the front and the back end, and we're in the people business in the back end, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:30

And all our other stakeholders is all people, correct.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Suppliers, a whole lot stakeholders. Invest. Invest invest in good people. That's that's something that I would probably tell myself.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Yeah, I'm a big believer that you know, in business we use the word internal and external stakeholders because you can't consider them, oh they're just my staff, oh they're just my suppliers. No, oh that's just my providor. Oh fuck him, he's just you know, he's my fruit and veg guy. Yeah, no, they're stakeholders in your business. Correct. They're like business partners, correct. They're making you or breaking you, so you've got to treat them with respect, honesty, dignity, yeah, and if you're not getting the same back, it's like a cancer. You've got to cut it out. That's right. You know, and that's that's what I find that um, but before you cut people out, you gotta look at yourself in the mirror first. You gotta think, why is that person treating me that way? Am I treating him like shit? That's right. You know, and I I think a self-reflection is a big thing that you know it's a taboo, no one wants to talk about it. Some people might think, oh, you know, I don't self-reflect, what's the point of that? Work on myself, what does that mean? No, you if you don't self-develop, you're not getting anywhere. Correct. You're gonna be stuck in your own thoughts. It's like not never traveling outside your little suburb. Exactly.

unknown 38:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

You want to stay in your block, you'll stay in your block. But you if you self-reflect, you'll be able to grow. Yeah, it doesn't mean you like I've gone to uni, I studied hospitality management. I've become a food service consultant, I'm doing my MBA, but nothing beats a school of hard knocks. You jumped in the kitchen at 12, I jumped in the kitchen at 8. Yeah, that's how I used to hang out with my dad. Yeah, dad would always have businesses on the side, and to see him on the weekends because weeknights he was busy at different restaurants.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

So on the weekends, I'd go in there on a Saturday morning, wake up at 4:35 a.m., go in there and just be in the dishwasher. Love the spray gun. Fucking the chef pissed me off, I'll just quickly spray him, you know. But you know, behind the slicer at 11 years old, like it's and that that's why I found my passion in the industry because the same thing that you said, age is just a number. It's when you it's when you start, like it's the hours that you put into the game. Yeah, it's like playing a video game. Yeah, if you're playing hours and hours and hours of it, you're gonna get better. Yeah. Same thing. If you put the hours into the business, especially if you're a staff member, like I find that you know the staff that do really well are the ones that commit, they know they're they know they're they have their work-life balance, but if they want to really grow, or put the effort. Put the effort in. 100%. Go in and say, hey Johnny, listen, I want to learn something.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

What's the responsibility that you have that you can just pass on to me and let me run that? Let me own that for three months. Yeah. Let me be the guy that's accountable for this. The minute you do that, you're upskilling yourself. Correct. You don't have to go pay for courses because you know what? You've got the best course right here, right now. Exactly. You know?

SPEAKER_00 40:39

And um I I honestly I live by a 10,000 hour rule. Yeah. 10,000 hours. You want to be you want to be professional or something? 10,000 hours. That's it. Do the same thing over and over and over and over again. And you'll find that over time you'll find better ways to do it. Right? You just it just becomes natural. It's not something that you're learning, you're learning as you're going.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

I used to have a crew of architects that worked in my firm. Seven people. Interior designers, architects, and they're all better than me. I never went to draftsman college. I didn't learn how to draw. But I learned off there.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

But I bet you knew how to get the work. I knew how to get the work. Exactly. And this is where I said to you before employ people that are better than you.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

One million percent. And COVID came, I had to let go of that the whole design team because no new venues were coming up. And then I had people still wanted kitchen designs. I had to design kitchens, man. I still had to design kitchens. So I was like, okay, I can't afford the whole crew. Subcontracting wasn't really working out because the rates were too expensive. So I just upskilled myself.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

I've done my time. These are all the projects that I led, you know, design and managing over 600 venues across Australia.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I said, here it is, did a drafting course. Because I could sketch a kitchen, I could easily sketch it, but I just couldn't put it in the computer.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

And I did that. And then fast forward now from 2020 to 2024, I'm designing kitchens in the US, the UK, the EU, Singapore. All virtual. Yeah. And people were like, how is that possible? I used to sit in a meeting for two and a half hours and we used to lose all this information. If the meetings aren't online now, I'll go crazy. Yeah. Because it's like we're recording it. You can go back, you can go back and listen. Yeah. And your brief becomes more clear. Yeah, I understand. Sitting face face to face and networking, you can't beat that.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

But I personally say if you're a business owner, move your meetings online. Utilize AI for the right reasons. Yeah. Get an AI meeting, uh, meeting assistant. It'll record the whole meeting for you. It'll take your meeting minutes. I used to have an assistant sit there taking meeting notes. When she doesn't even understand what we're talking about. You know? So it's just like that's ways now you can optimize your business, and then you one thing that we we can never get back is time.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

100%. Well, people are buying services to win time. To win time. Right? And that's our point. But if you ask you a question.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

How many times have you cut the grass at home?

SPEAKER_01 43:34

I don't have grass. Okay. Because I didn't want to. There you go. Because it too long?

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Because you don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

No, it would take take forever. So I just the first day I moved in, there you go. I flat laid uh concrete. Some I was like, you know, what they call like the the fake grass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And some some some uh you know the the the rocks on the bottom, put the put uh put some fake grass and that's it.

unknown 43:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

And now if I if I've got to do some gardening, airtasker, boom, someone will come in, see you later.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

And that's what I mean. And there's and there's and there's there's always a service for somebody out there. 100%. So you create work, saves you time, then you have to utilize that time to do something more productive. To do something more productive. And this is where a lot of people fail. Because what people do is they might have spare time, they want to waste it on dumb shit.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

That's the problem. I understand if it's remedial for you. Like if there are people that I like gardening, it's a hobby.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Great, that's your hobby. No, I'm talking about people that are getting people to come and do their gardening. Yeah. And they've spent, they've they've blown their time. They've blown the time. I think, you know, people always say to me, Oh, Johnny, you know, you're opening another restaurant now, you know, how about your work-life balance? What does work-life balance mean, man? Like, I have no concept of that. Work-life balance is personal, it's how you want to treat it. If I want to spend 50 hours this week with my family, I will choose to do that. But if I know I can only spend 15 hours with my family, they understand it. And how do you communicate that? That you know, it's it's it's just become part of our family structure. Like, you know, all my kids know, my wife knows, you know, my wife works as hard as I do. My kids, I mean, my kids now are a little bit older, but they they get it. They get it and they actually appreciate it. They they appreciate what we're doing, you know, and and you know, they they learn from it as well. But I never expect them to do what I do. That's the difference. I've never said to any of my kids, oh, you should become a chef, um, you should go and do law, uh, and you should be a professional at something. I've always said to them since since I were little kids, you choose your own path. Because they will fall into their own path. And they're gonna love what they do because we've brought them up with a culture in the family that we love what we do, so they will love what they do when they choose 100% what they want to do. Yeah, my oldest daughter, she runs one of my biggest restaurants. I never ever asked her to want if she wanted to do that. No, she fell into it, she she loved it, and now she's she's probably one of my best front-of-house people. Not because she's my daughter, but she just loves what she does. She loves people, people love her. She's probably more personable than I am. I'm telling you, like she's like next level.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

And how do you manage that? Uh, you know, family business is such a big thing in Australia, it's it's the forefront of small business. Yeah, there's a lot of families that are integrated uh in their business because you know of our high cost of living and kids need to work there to support, and whatever the case may be. Do you separate the family and the business? Or do you like how do you keep that balance between your I'm not saying work-life balance, but I'm saying family and business. Where do you draw the line?

SPEAKER_00 47:09

So, you know, my my kids will probably, I don't know if they'll agree with this, but if we're at home, I don't want to talk about anything. I don't want to talk about business. We're at home. Let's talk about something else. Because you you do need a uh shut-off point, but you've got to choose where that is. Is it at the dinner table? You know, um, you know, that that you just really um you know embrace and and enjoy each other's company there, possibly. And if there is a question, it might be a really quick, short question, but nothing else. Like I will never ask my daughter anything about work when I'm at home. Ever. Ever. I've made a really like conscious decision about that. It's I will never ask anything and and and vice versa, I don't want to be asked. Like I say, I'm not I don't want to hear about it. Fix it. So I don't give, I will never give a um a solution to a question if my daughter was to ask me. If there's if there's a problem and she's oh I've got this problem, what do I do? What would you do? Because people know the answer. So I treat her like I would treat any of my other managers, anyone else. What would you do? What do you think you should do? And it gets the mind going, right? And that's how people grow. You've got it, you know, that's that's how you make people grow. I always tell, I always, you know, tell the managers, let let your staff own own the idea. You know, everyone's got a good idea. Even when people say, Oh, that's a bad idea, it's not a bad idea, it's just not an idea that you like.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

My wife's number one with ideas. She's got all the ideas in the world, and then three, four months later, someone's gone and done it. So I told you.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

But but that that's and that this is what I'm saying is that your your wife might have a hundred ideas. I'm not saying that all of them are gonna be right, but you should never discount any of them. 100%. It might, you might want to say, oh, you know, I'll I'll I'll I'll spend 10 minutes on on thinking about that. In that 10 minutes, you don't know what comes up out of it. So it's it's you should never ever discount. I never discount anyone's ideas, anyone at all. You know, like I'll give you an example. I say this to my my my chefs all the time. Most important person in the kitchen right now, who is it? For me, yeah, it'd be the kitchen hand or the dishwasher. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

100%.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

No one understands this.

SPEAKER_01 49:47

Only because I worked in there from eight years old, and you know what? If you're the heartbeat of the kitchen, if you're not washing those pans, you're not washing those trays, you're not washing those plates, you're not getting nothing out.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Exactly. I made a point of that one day. I really did make a point of that one day. I had a I had a um kitchen and that was with me for probably about five years, and she was an older lady, but she was amazing, you know. Like, I used to treat her like she was my mum. And the head chef at the time was yelling at her, and I could see that she was getting deflated. And so at the end of the chief, I said, Yeah, what's going on? Yeah, the chef's always yelling at me. I said, It's alright. I said, Don't worry about it. I said, Tomorrow, do me a favor. When you start and the chef comes and gives you the pans, don't wash any of them. And she said, No, no, no, no, no, I'll get in trouble. I said, No, I'm telling you, don't do it. I said, I'll be on the pass, don't do it. And she said, No, no, no, I don't want to do that. And I said, if you don't do it, I said, I'm gonna tell you to go home. So I stood at the pass and she's looking at me, and I'm like, and he kept giving the pan, he kept shouting out, pants, pants, pants, pants, and she's like looking at could see she's sweating, and I'm going, don't touch the pan. And he's walked over and started yelling, yeah, where's the fucking pants? So I walked in the kitchen, I said, What's the problem? I don't have any pans, we're busy. Oh and I said, Oh, I said, he needs pants. And she's looking at me like, What are you you told me not to wash your pants? I said, Can you do me a favor? Can you move out of the way? I said, wash your own fucking pants. Wash your pants and then go and cook your food. I made a point of it because I needed this person to understand, even though he had a lot of experience in the in the industry, I needed him to understand that you need to respect everybody the same. Right? And to his uh testimony, he came up to me at the end of the night and he goes, No one's ever done that to me. He said, I I understand why you do that. I said, You don't do that to people, you respect them. Even delivery drivers. I always tell his chef, if there's a wrong order that comes in the back door, it's not the driver's fault, not the driver's fault, man. Just give them a break. Because can you imagine how many places they've gone to and they're getting yelled at? Just pick up the phone, talk to the office, we've got a problem, blah, blah, blah, and fix it. People, these simple things people don't understand. People get into business, you know what happens? The ego takes over. That's the biggest downfall in any business person, like across all industries. As soon as you believe you're bigger than the business, bigger than the people that you employ, mate, you are going to fail. That I can guarantee.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

What's one piece of advice you would give to someone who is on the journey to starting their business right now? If there was one statement that you would make plan your heart out.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

It's difficult, but it will it will definitely um it'll definitely pay off. And and stick to the plan. Because a lot of people can plan, but what happens is um um obstacles come in the way and they think, oh, I won't do that now because I need to do this. I think if you've got a plan and you keep on that road, you you you gotta stick to it. Don't don't don't veer off. And that's that's probably the only advice. Like, really, I business is tough. You know, man. Like, business is tough, you know, and and things get thrown at you every day.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

It's a sideboard, but you just gotta persevere, you gotta persevere. You gotta know your purpose, yeah, you gotta know your plan. Yeah, Johnny. I just want to really, really, really thank you. Uh, this was an emotional podcast, actually, for me, because I related a lot, and um I seen I can just this is the first time I've met you, and I could just literally see pure passion and drive and just humbleness, like it's it's hard to explain to some people at this level. And I have people that you know come to me for help all the time, and I don't always have the answer. You don't always have the answer, and that's why I love networking and leaning on professionals like yourself to be able to share your story, and I'm so happy that you were you know open and transparent, considering you know, there's a lot on the stake these days with media and stuff like that. But you're a true gentleman, you showed your cards, and you know, I think uh no wonder why you've got such an amazing establishment. Uh thank you so much, and uh, I think I've made a new friend. I'm proud.