Hospo Dojo Podcast
Hospo Dojo Podcast
From Barista to MasterChef 2024 Winner: The Culinary Journey of Nat Thaipun
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On this episode of the Hospo Dojo Podcast, I sit down with Nat Thaipun, winner of MasterChef Australia 2024, to chat about food, the hospitality grind, and what life really looks like after reality TV. It’s a raw, honest conversation about passion, resilience, and making your mark in the hospitality industry.
For Nat, cooking was never just about feeding people, it was an emotional outlet. Growing up in a Thai-Australian household, she watched her grandmother cook traditional meals over an open flame, creating flavours that carried stories of their heritage. Later in life, as she faced personal struggles and moments of deep anxiety, cooking became her way of processing emotions. She describes how she would spend hours in the kitchen, cooking for friends and even strangers, simply because she found peace in the process.
But Nat’s journey to the MasterChef stage was anything but conventional. Before stepping into the world of competitive cooking, she was a barista trainer, running espresso bars, and hustling in the coffee industry. She opens up about how her work ethic, honed through years of perfecting coffee and customer service, translated seamlessly into the high-pressure environment of the MasterChef kitchen. She may not have had formal culinary training, but her relentless passion for learning, experimenting, and perfecting her craft transformed her into an undeniable powerhouse in the kitchen.
At what point did you feel like I'm gonna win this fing thing?
SPEAKER_00So I'd be working like 6 a.m. to 2 p.m. and then I'd go home, just cook all night until like 3am.
SPEAKER_03And how did you get into cooking?
SPEAKER_00I didn't get into cooking really until I left home for good.
SPEAKER_03What was that journey like? It would have been a different journey than anything you've ever been on.
SPEAKER_00I was going through a mental period during a Master Chef, and so many people forget this, but I went on Master Chef as a home cook. Like my knife skills are shocking.
SPEAKER_03And you know, the next potential winner is probably watching this. So what's what's one piece of advice you'd give them?
SPEAKER_00I think what people do quite a lot is like they compare.
SPEAKER_03On this episode of the Hospo Dojo podcast, I sit down with Nat Taipan, winner of Master Chef Australia 2024, to chat about food, the hospitality grind, and what life really looks like after reality TV. It's a raw, honest conversation about passion, resilience, and making your mark as a female chef in the hospitality industry. Natalie, welcome to the Hospital Dojo podcast. Thank you for joining. Thanks for having me. Thanks for flying down from Melbourne, a favourite top, top city of mine. We love it. My wife and I genuinely enjoy our time in Melbourne all the time. Melbourne's always been a great place for us. We have a lot of true fans in Melbourne, I truly believe. And I I s I see that no matter what Melbourne goes through, Melbourne is Melbourne, and no one can take that away from them. And have you were you born and raised?
SPEAKER_00I was born and raised in Melbourne, although more of like in the suburbs. Whereabouts? In Sunbury. Okay. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about Sunbury. My parents had a restaurant there that opened it in 1992, and they moved there because it was like what they could afford at the time, like rent-wise, and they were actually the first ever Thai restaurant out there. So it I'm like smiling about now, but it was like racially hard. It was um it was intense. Like we were the first Asian family.
SPEAKER_03What was the school name?
SPEAKER_00Massed and grandma. Yeah, so I grew out in the Outback. I was my parents' property was backed onto like this indigenous land that was a sacred like wedding ceremony. Wow. So it was actually gorgeous. Like a lot of people from RMIT who study like native um Australian like history will go there quite a lot. And I never used to know why there were so but so many buses that would rock up to our house. Like I'd park right next to a house and they would go look at this land.
SPEAKER_03And then so how far is Sunbury from Melbourne?
SPEAKER_00It's like it used to be probably like a 25-minute drive on the highway, but now with the traffic and everything, it's um a lot of people say 40 minutes or something. Yeah, yeah. On the on the train's probably like yeah, 45 to an hour. Um, but I went to school in Macedon Grandma, which was like on the base of Mount Macedon. So it was like in the middle of the bush. We would like get to run around everywhere in the bush, and you know, it would it was one of those schools where like if it was hotter than like 28 degrees, we had everyone's a day off, yeah. Because it was like it was just bushfire warnings all the time. Wow, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, let's let's find out a little bit about Nat. So you went to this school, you ran away for some bushfires, you lived in Sunbury.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, went lived in Sunbury. My parents had a restaurant. Um, we they worked really hard, we don't really didn't really see them a huge amount. And are they both Thai? Your parents? My parents are both Thai. And um obviously grew in the outdoors, and because my parents were always working, we didn't really have anyone that looked after us uh in particular. Like I kind of looked after my brothers, and we'll we spent most of our time outside, like just playing in like the sticks in the dirt, and just like skating down hills and stuff like that. And um, my grandma was introduced into our life like a lot, I can't remember what age, but she kind of became someone who looked after us, like our guardian. And she, you know, was cooking a lot of Thai food, but she was cooking like proper Thai food, like she was big, she would be cooking like outside, like using the morning pestle, like on the ground, like doing everything like really properly, um and causing chaos, essentially. Like I was causing chaos, and my grandma was causing chaos, and my grandma just did not understand why we were playing outside so much. Because like in Thai culture and Asian culture, it's like a big no-no. Like, if you if you are like of if you are generating enough income, you should be inside playing with computers because you're making enough money to like play with computers, if that makes sense. Right. Um so you shouldn't be like you know, spending too much time outside.
SPEAKER_03But is it a safety thing too? Like where I'm from, like I'm from Jordan, right? And when I'd always go back and visit my grandparents, I was told I wasn't to be outside after 4 p.m.
SPEAKER_00Well, no, it's not a safety thing. It was it's just purely for like you know, like you don't want to like darken our skin as well. Because like it's you know, it's a it's it shows that you're spending too much time outside, which means that you're not from like a higher economic background. So like the higher amount of money you have in Asia in general means that like you could spend more time inside, and so the fairer your skin will be. It's a whole thing. This is why they have like whitening creams in in Asia, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and like but for us Aussies, we love the sun. I know, I know get us outside, you know. For us, if if someone is uh if someone's been able to have be outdoors, get some sun, swim in the beach, recreational time.
SPEAKER_00You have recreational time, you have just you have freedom, yeah, you have freedom, right? It's like I was at Bronte today and I've never been there before, but I looked at everyone around me and I was like, it's a it's a Monday. Like why is it so packed?
SPEAKER_03I was like, it's so busy, and that that's the that's the weird paradox, right? And that and I guess that's where you know cultures change and we start appreciating things that others wish for and what someone else uh appreciates we don't wish for. Like it's it's like and that's that's that's the that that's the beauty of life, is that you know you can choose your own path, and we I you know I always say this that we're so blessed to be in Australia, no matter who you are, what religion you come from, what colour your skin is, we're all Australian, and you you will always belong here, yeah. You know, and that's that's that's super nice. So if there's anyone that's listening here and not feeling like their home is home, Australia's always open. If you can get in, you're welcome. Yeah, all right. Um, but yeah, I I truly find that you know we can go to sleep at night knowing that we belong somewhere, yeah.
SPEAKER_00100%. Such a multicultural uh country, like very, very lucky.
SPEAKER_03Of course, and you would have learned a lot about the um you know the indigenous being so close to the the homeland all of them and and back and on, and you would have had a lot of research. Did you did you end up picking up about it or learning more about it?
SPEAKER_00I did, I had it definitely sparked my interest in it. I didn't really learn much about at school, like in primary school especially. Um that's probably one of the things that Australia kind of lacks and falls behind on quite a lot. Um, but I was really interested in like playing in the backyard, and my brother and I would see like the sign, and it was talking about like the wedding ceremonials, and I've always been interested in it. Um so when I went to uni, I actually studied environmental science and social science, and one of my electives was um learning about like indigenous culture. Nice and then even like in high school, um I went my brothers and I like separately, but we went to Arnhem Land and I went to Cape York and went to like Kakadoo National Park. Yeah, and um it was amazing. It kind of sparked my interest in the degree I decided to to study.
SPEAKER_03To pursue and how did you get into cooking?
SPEAKER_00So obviously grew up with really, really good food um with my grandma and my parents as well, but um I didn't get into cooking really until I left home for for good, like not even when I moved out, like when I moved out um because I live in Melbourne and being a uni student, I was surrounded by really good cheap Asian food, so that was fine. Like I never really cooked then, and living in a share house with like a whole bunch of boys trying to like maintain a fridge is so hard that I just gave up on trying to cook. Um, and so it wasn't until I moved to New Zealand and I moved to Wanaka, a town of 8,000 people, and when it's like peak winter season or peak summer season goes up to like 55,000 people. Well, it's it's insane. Like the str the businesses like they struggle a lot there because of the fluctuation, like the the small period where it goes back down to like 8,000 people, it's like you're kind of screwed.
SPEAKER_03Well, you look at Europe, right? And I I feel like Australians and and New Zealanders, even Asians, they don't get this like the Europeans. Yeah, the Europeans build restaurants for the summertime, yeah. They know in these three months I'm gonna feed there's 55,000 people coming to this area, yeah. They're the people that I've got to work on, and then I close shop. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like for all the rest of the year. For the rest of the year.
SPEAKER_03Just close up and go do something else. And that's what they literally do. So they their holiday in summertime is their working time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I feel like, you know, we need more, we need ways to look at how they do it, how to create, yeah, you and you can create feasible businesses based on that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You just got to work with your landlords better, have a better understanding. You know, maybe it's like a instead of instead of leasing it for the whole year, you part you partner in with your landlord and say, okay, this is a three-month busy season, instead of me copping a whole rant, like there's different ways that people negotiate these things, yeah. But you know, seasonal income is always a challenge. 100%. But you have to be adaptive. But those people that live live in that area though, that's where it gets difficult. Because if you live there, you're like, how do I survive the whole year just for to make my three months worth of income to then go back to nothing? It that's that's that's the difficulty, but that's an education piece that we can dial into another day. But you you live there, and why'd you choose that area?
SPEAKER_00Snowboarding. So I'm a professional snowboarder. No, but like long story short, I got really depressed after after my degree. Um, I studied environmental science and social science, and after that I went to Myanmar, um, which used to be called Myanmar. Went there with action aid to um as an environmental social scientist to essentially um look at mitigating the issues that they were facing due to climate change. So after going coming back from Myanmar, I was like shattered. Like I felt like I had shattered my soul because I felt like there were so many issues in the world, and obviously as a uni student who have just like finished uni, I went to that degree, not feeling like I was gonna save the world, but I like have this like energy that was like really charging. I was like, I'm gonna do something. I don't know if it's like whether or not it's environmental, or like I could just feel that there was something that I needed to do. I know it sounds really cheesy, but it was like an energy that was like going through me.
SPEAKER_03And and that that's normal, like you you you just all of a sudden you've gone through a journey, was your degree three or four years? Four years, yeah. Four years, you went through an empowerment in yourself where you had knowledge, yeah, you had case studies that you built on, you built your own sense of beliefs, yeah, your peers agreed with you, your lecturers agreed with you, yeah. Everyone gave you this sense of like assurance that you're a hundred percent right. Yeah. And funny enough, Nat, this happens in restaurants.
SPEAKER_00Yes, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_03And I'll explain to you how. You could come up with a dish, your head chef will say amazing, your peers will say amazing, your wait staff will say amazing. But the job isn't done yet. You dish it up, you price it up, you do the menu, customers order it, but it's not until that plate comes back to the kitchen is your job done.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, literally.
SPEAKER_03And you might you might dish out 50 that night and everyone's left the whole plate together. Yeah. And the whole team's gone, what the hell? What we what where did we It's so heartbreaking, hey? Yeah, it is. You have this sense of you know empowerment and and you think you know it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And that happens a lot. It happens to me, happens to happens to everyone. The comeback is is how you deal with it, right? So, how did you deal with that sense of not not being able to achieve what you wanted to achieve there?
SPEAKER_00I just went absolute turbo. So I went like I um obviously couldn't achieve the thing I wanted to do. Obviously, everything takes time, a lot of patience involved, but I've tried like um non-government organizations, I tried like uh AYCC, which is like the Australian Youth Climate Change Coal coalition, tried like Greenpeace, I just tried so many different things, and I was like, this is not the world for me. Like, I want to make change, I want to like um kind of raise awareness on all all these social issues and how connected everything is. It wasn't just about like environmental issues, but it was like about food security, and I was like, I opened a cafe when I was at uni. You open one, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Did your parents help you out?
SPEAKER_00Uh oh, sort of. I was working really hard. So I opened like a tiny three by three, it was it was tiny, like a no, not three by three, thirty meters square space.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so ten by three. Yeah. It's something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00A tiny space.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, or five by, you know, we can get technical, but guys, tiny space. Three metres by ten metres or five metres by six, seven metres, like something like that. You'd probably fit like eight seats.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was tiny. It was an espresso bar, not really a cafe. Um, and that um Was that in Melbourne? Yes, it was right next to Victoria Market, and that espresso bar was a space that I wanted to create in order to create these like conversations. I had books, and I just wanted to have like a safe space for like union students to go to, and um, you know, I'm really into philosophy, so it was a space I want people to like form ideas, or they can have a space like they could just chill out on this share table and hang out with people. But that didn't like work after I say it didn't work, it finished after two years because it was it I needed to move forward. I was like, it wasn't it was good, it was nice for me to experience it.
SPEAKER_03Was it generating income?
SPEAKER_00It was generating income, but not like a huge amount. But it was also like pulling me, it was taking too much of my time. Like it felt like I wasn't um I needed to do other things. I could feel that I needed to do other things.
SPEAKER_03Did you lose any money?
SPEAKER_00No, I didn't. But I it was the setup was really cheap. Like I had a coffee machine that a coffee supplier supplied the machine for. Um I had like a really shitty bar fridge, two bar fridge. Yeah, it was and I like got church pews from a church that was like chugging out the pews.
SPEAKER_03And rent? How much was your rent?
SPEAKER_00Nothing, it was like a thousand dollars a month back then. Right. Twenty when I opened it. I was I was nineteen.
SPEAKER_03So you you opened that little place and did it from a bootstrap budget. Yeah. How'd you negotiate the thing with the coffee supplier?
SPEAKER_00Because I was I was a barista beforehand. So I've been making coffee since 2010 and um it was kind of by accident, like one day the boss was gone, they really need some on the machine, and I was like, I'm a gun in general. I'm like just I can like whiz around, I'm like a border collie, I can just like whiz around, get shit done so fast.
SPEAKER_03People, if you don't know what border collie is, it's a breed of dogs in Australia that we use on cattle farms a lot and around farms. So and we utilize them to to help us out on on farm, but yeah, that's a border to herd sheep, yeah, especially.
SPEAKER_00And I'm I feel like that with customers is especially. I could just like you know, turn over tables, but like in the in the most natural way possible, like a just a front of house person. Like when my parents needed to do it, I was so good at distracting people and making people feel like that that was a time for them to leave when I was just trying to just create a fuss. So I had that, and um that so it wasn't hard to get the coffee supplier to that's like a normal thing anyway. Like if you're uh selling enough coffee, like it's like 40 kilos a week or whatever contract you you like end up signing, um, they will make sure you have a coffee machine and a grinder.
SPEAKER_03So let's let's just dive into that for a second. Doing 40 kilos a week is a lot of numbers.
SPEAKER_00It's I don't think it's unfortunate.
SPEAKER_03It's pretty well for for an espresso bar, it's average. Yeah. But for the average person, okay, the average person going into their first business, yeah, they don't know what that sort of volume is. How many coffees does a kilo get you?
SPEAKER_00So it's 20 grams for one dose.
SPEAKER_03If it's dialed in.
SPEAKER_00I always dial in my coffee.
SPEAKER_03Right, but a lot of people don't.
SPEAKER_00So it's 20 to 22 grams for one coffee. It depends depending on what it what it is, obviously. Right. So that's 50 cups.
SPEAKER_0350 cups.
SPEAKER_00But there's quite a lot of excess as well, obviously. So let's just go 40. Okay. 40 cups of coffee per kilo.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Do you want to do the numbers? Yeah, let's do the numbers for you. 444 is a topic.
SPEAKER_00So you're saying 2,400 coffees. That's nothing. 2,400 coffees a week.
SPEAKER_03Let's just talk, let's just talk about it. Circle back. One kilo, you're saying it's about 40 cups. 50 cups. Okay, so you're doing 40 cups, okay.
SPEAKER_00Because there's a lot of like to dial in as well, you waste like three shots per head in the morning.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah, so you go on 40. Cool. Yeah. So 40 cups.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Times times 10. Yes. Yeah. 40 kilos. 40 kilos. 40 by 40.
SPEAKER_00So 1600 coffees. Yes. A week. Yes. That's nothing.
SPEAKER_03Right. Now, what you need to understand is there are a lot of people that have restaurants, have dessert bars, uh, that want to have coffee.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And this is where they get caught out when they're not doing the volume and the math. So they'll go sign a contract with anyone. Yeah. And um how it generally works is in your kilo price, you're paying for the machine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There's a subsidy going.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03No one does anything for free. I don't care what anyone says. No, no one's free. Nobody does anything for free. Nothing is for free. Nothing is for free. Yeah. Right? 100%. So if you're getting a coffee machine from a supplier and they're giving you a coffee machine and they're giving you a grinder, that's because they're estimating the volume that you're going to have. Now, I've seen deals come about where if the coffee supplier knows that the volume isn't going to hit above 20 kilos, because there is sites like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Go for a secondhand machine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03If you go for a secondhand machine that's refurbed with a good grinder, you'll be covered because then your break fee isn't that hard.
SPEAKER_00Also, like you make your money back off coffee machines. They like their value just is like everlasting. As long as you look after get a service.
SPEAKER_03If you get a good machine, it's it's a good machine. And you make sure you get the right machine. Yeah. And Nat was saying before, and me and her had a debate on dialing in the coffee. Nat, can you explain what dialing in the coffee means?
SPEAKER_00Um going back to my coffee days now. So dialing in the coffee is um a process that you do every morning, and quite often you do when there's depending on where you work, but like when there's temperature change, when someone opens the door. So in the morning, quite often, like you walk into your cafe, you you dial in, and you essentially have to like weigh out your total dose, which is about 20 to 22 grams, and then you have to time the total extraction that is coming out of the machine. Um, if you're being very picky, you're looking at your pulse rates, which is the water flow, and then you're looking at the total amount of yield that comes out of the coffee of that like 20 to 22 gram dose. It's a it's a whole science behind it. Um, and you have to quite often, I say quite often, you have to dial in if say you suddenly open the door at 11am because it's too hot and humid, your grind is gonna change. And a lot of people think that it's like because your grind grind has moved or something, but it's actually got to do with like atmospheric pressure and humidity.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00It's a science, it's a full science around it. Yeah, and so you gotta do this every morning, and sometimes it takes so long, and you're not you're not only doing it for espresso, you gotta dial in for uh milk coffees as well. So you when you do it for espresso, you might have different like beans, like single origins, and you can't be using the same recipe for like a milk-based coffee espresso shot.
SPEAKER_03So, what have you learned today, folks? Partner with the right coffee supplier who's gonna teach you how to dial in your coffee. Don't just buy beans from a wholesaler and just think you can roast it. Look for your coffee partner who's gonna assist you through this process, train you up, and every coffee profile is different.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And what you're describing is the job I was doing before Master Chef.
SPEAKER_03And what was that?
SPEAKER_00I was a barista trainer.
SPEAKER_03Wow, who was that for?
SPEAKER_00Uh so I was freelancing towards the end, like in New Zealand. But I was working for Code Black, and then I worked for Wide Open Road, and then I've done Supreme, All Press. Axel. I think I just keep naming some things.
SPEAKER_03So you're a barista trainer. Yeah. Awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I really want to get um my Q grader as well. But it's like one of the it's like in your it's like becoming familiar in like coffee. Um, it's like three thousand dollars to get your Q grader and only like three people pass a year, something dumb like that. And um before I went on Master Chef, I was actually gonna move to Toronto, go work with these uh this coffee coffee company called Market Coffee, and they were in Toronto, and they were gonna expand essentially in Canada. So I was gonna become a like area barista, right? But before that I was working for Square One and have worked with like Ona Coffee.
SPEAKER_03And what's your favourite?
SPEAKER_00I don't I don't have a favourite.
SPEAKER_03Come on.
SPEAKER_00I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Everyone's got a every okay, you love something.
SPEAKER_00I love owner coffee. I it depends on what I'm feeling like. Um these days I just drink batch brew because I have a mockamasa at home. I used to have a coffee machine in New Zealand and I used to drink double espresso, but it depends. I have a barista's breakfast for breakfast. I have a double espresso, a long black, and then a batch brew.
SPEAKER_03Every morning.
SPEAKER_00Pretty much, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah. And how long does it take you to get through them?
SPEAKER_00Uh if I'm working as a barista, it only takes me like 45 minutes. It's probably most likely back to back. Sometimes I finish with like an oat flat white as like a dessert. And like I say this, I don't eat until like 2 p.m. Now as a chef though, it's even worse. I don't eat until 4 30. It's like some people think like I've been made for this industry, but I'm like, I don't think people realise how hard it were was to work as a barista as well. Like you're just so like people think I'm so fast in the kitchen, and but I'm like, it's because you have to be so fast as a barista. Like I used to work in like the middle of the city in Melbourne, and if you're not getting that coffee out in two minutes, like people are gonna walk off. Like people like all the suits, you know, they they don't want to wait. Like, and they're not gonna come back as well if you're getting a coffee from the country.
SPEAKER_03We have the most educated palate for coffee, I believe, in the world. Yeah, Australians do. Yeah, we do, yeah, and their orders are like getting more complicated.
SPEAKER_00It depends where you are though. So more suburban areas, it's like complicated with all the uh alternative milks now, yeah, and like the different sugars. But now it's actually going back to the other way where it's like doubles brassos, batteries, batch brews. The only difference is that there's a lot more like um freezer door coffees, like cellar door coffees. So those cost like sixteen sixteen dollars a cup sometimes, you know. Yeah. And it's yeah, if you don't know the difference.
SPEAKER_03What you're doing with it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if you don't know the difference, then like don't go buy a sixteen dollar cup cup of coffee.
SPEAKER_03Do you know why Starbucks failed in Australia?
SPEAKER_00Uh because it was too consistent.
unknownI don't know.
SPEAKER_03No, actually, no. There's a couple things, and I actually did this a part of my study when I was finishing my hospitality management degree.
SPEAKER_00Wait, did they fail in in Melbourne? They failed. No, they failed in Australia. Oh wow, okay.
SPEAKER_03They failed. And I'll say this on the record, they failed. Starbucks has a target to get to a hundred stores in any continent, any country that they go to.
SPEAKER_00That's greedy.
SPEAKER_03That's their that's their that's it, no, but that's their stretch goal is a hundred stores. Yeah. Um I think they got to like don't quote me, but I think it was like sixty to eighty stores, something like that. And they failed, they they went backwards. And the reason for that was on a couple notes. Number one, they didn't localize their menu. There was no flat white or long black.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, wow. Interesting.
SPEAKER_03Number two, their baristas were like not personable. So you would you would be working, you'd be working the you'd be working the floor, you'd see like you mentioned suits, but we'll play with play the game suits. You see a guy down, three people down who's a regular every day.
SPEAKER_00Oh, start making it.
SPEAKER_03You start making the coffee. That doesn't happen in Starbucks.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And number three is a price point.
SPEAKER_00Was it expensive?
SPEAKER_03It was more expensive than what you would buy, right? And that's where the competitive advantage was was towards was towards our locals because Starbucks weren't just hitting the mark. We were giving so much more value for for for less cost. And these guys are a billion dollar company, yeah, and they couldn't make it work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_03So the family that owns 7-Elevens actually acquired them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, and they're I think they've got like 24 stores now. So then now they're now they're re-popular, redoing rebranding, but that's Starbucks. Then you went into Master Chef?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03What the hell got you from barista training, Supreme, all these big brands like Owner? You're about literally to be like a master barista in Australia. Your plaque was about to go on a wall in the Hall of Fame.
SPEAKER_00Well, I was I really want to get into like uh World Barista champs, or like you know, I was trying to, I was doing I was competing in New Zealand as well. Yeah, trying to um do like latte art competitions, really good, drawing dicks and coffees, like really good, so many different types of things. So then you realize that the dick art wasn't working for you, so you no, no, so I was like fully ready, so I had a working holiday visa, a two-year holiday visa in Canada that I wasn't gonna give up because I paid $2k for. Like, I've been living paycheck to paycheck just to like sustain a snowboarding lifestyle. Like the pay in New Zealand is shocking. Like, I my pay card, the reason why I went to freelance barista in New Zealand was because the pay for barista was half the price of here. It was like brutal. So I went from getting paid so well in Melbourne to getting half the pay in New Zealand, and I was like, I have to work out a way to live because the rent was also the same price as Melbourne in New Zealand, in Monaco, and the produce is like you know, capsicombs were eight dollars for one. Like because we're living in the snow town, so had to be really adaptable, started freelancing, and then I was gonna go take this job that was offering me like 90 Canadian uh dollars uh salary, and I was like, salary for a barista, yes, like let's go. So I was like ready to go. My best friend was like, You're not going anywhere, like you need to do something with like your food career. Because her mum um owns a restaurant called Zin House in Mudgy, and Bronte's my best friend, and she was like, You're so good at making food. She was um my housemate as well, and I was I have a problem like where the more anxious and stressed out I get, and the sadder. The more you cook, the more I cook. Literally, like your outlet. Yeah, like I remember timing myself once, and I was spending like 16 hours a day in the kitchen, just like, and I would like invite people over, people would come through, and I like did not like it got to a point where I didn't give a shit if people didn't want to talk to me, just like take my food and leave. Like it was just my love language. I just like had to make food.
SPEAKER_02You just had to cook.
SPEAKER_00I just had to cook. Obviously, I spent so much money on like ingredients, but I just had to cook. It was like my thing that I wanted to do. Where the f was our invite, but it was like it became word of mouth. So, like I started doing these potlocks. Um, because we lived in such a small town, people were requesting like themes, so like Mexican, Japanese. I started doing rhyme.
SPEAKER_03People paying you for this stuff?
SPEAKER_00Um, so it became a thing where people were like, let's chip in for groceries. So like people, it was like five dollars for groceries, like I didn't make any money off it. I was like, whatever I was spending, I was like to buying a bottle of money.
SPEAKER_03And this was in New Zealand, yeah, in Wanaco.
SPEAKER_00And so I was doing that, and then there's a guy who was culinary trained in Melbourne, but he's a Kiwi, and he opened a restaurant called Mutton Bird, and he asked for me to do his wedding um in Wanaco at his restaurant. And it went from like a it was during COVID, so it went from like a 20, maybe 30 packs wedding to like 80 packs, and I was like, what the f did I just say yes to? I was like, this is not okay. My mum was in New Zealand at the time because she plays badminton, and she was competing in in New Zealand, like doing like her national championship tour. And I was like, Mom, you have to come to Monaco, I'll pay you. Like, here's my car, take my car, like you can drive around New Zealand, like you don't even have to hire a car, have anything you want, you can have my couch if you want, like, you have to come help me to this wedding, because obviously, like, she she's runs a restaurant, but she was retired by then, so she was like, What do you mean, like come do this wedding?
SPEAKER_03And I was like, Well, this is what happened.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was like, This is what happened, it's only me, it's 80 packs, and I don't have anyone else in the kitchen right now. And so I had my mom, me, I had a KP that was like this 15-year-old kid called Nate, who like didn't even work in the kitchen for that long. I don't even know how long he was there for. And then I wrote to one of my friends to come help, and it was chaos, but I loved it. I was like, I I could feel myself like you I kind of like had a taste of what it was like to be in service, and even though it was the most stressful thing, I swore at my mum so much. Like, I felt so bad for my mum, but like she was so chaotic, like she was using one pestle on the ground. I still have a picture of her in mid-service, like literally using a mortar pestle in the ground, and I was like, like in between the stoves. And I was like, Mum, what the f are you doing?
SPEAKER_03We need that, we need that photo. Yeah, I was swearing.
SPEAKER_00She's I'm like taking the photo of her, and she's just looking at me like smiling. I'm like, don't smile at me like that. Like we're in the middle of this. She's wearing this like like oh, like a Patagonia jacket. Like it was just so everything about it was just so fine. It was just so unorganized. And um, but was the wedding a success? Yeah, yeah, it was a success. When George and Emma loved it, but like I was so anxious because George and Emma have travelled quite a lot, but their family hadn't eaten like a whole fish before, like deep-fried whole fish, or they hadn't eaten like with their hands before, and they wanted to be like that because there was nothing like that in Monica. So they're like, we want like sticky rice, we want like all these weird stuff that Wanuker doesn't have, and so people were like, How do I eat this fish? And like they just didn't know what to do with the fish. It was just like, yeah, it was good though. Um, but George also, so George saw the advertisement for Master Chef Australia, Australia last year, and he was just like, nah, you have to apply, and I was like, Lol, no, I'm going to Canada. Like, I'm not fucking going. I'm not gonna go in Master Chef, there's no way. And because I watched my friend Sam Lowe win it in New Zealand, and when I watched it, I was getting anxiety from like the time pressures, from everything. Because when I cook, I like play a mix and like a like a SoundCloud mix or YouTube mix, and I'm like kind of dancing. That's like my like my Zen space, so I take ages to cook as well. Like when I tell people that dinner's ready at six, it would be ready at midnight, like just like it was just my space, so I was like, no way, and then I think as a joke, my best friend Bronte did the application, did the application, and then Master Chef got back to me, and they called me when I had ready packed, gotten ready uh for Canada, and um my partner at the time didn't even know I applied, like actually no one, my parents didn't even know, and I was like, So I'm going to Sydney to go audition for Master Chef, and they were like, they just actually they th they thought I was joking because it's like such a nat thing to do as well, it's like the most impulsive decision. Um and then I did my first round, and then I did my second round, and I genuinely thought I was gonna fuck up the first round because I hadn't had never made pasta like ravioli with egg yolk inside, and I did it on the first. I was kind of I felt bad, but I was kind of taking the piss because I was like, I saw everyone there, and I was like, there's no way I'm gonna get through with all these people here. Like the lines were huge. There was like it wasn't just like my time slot that had like 30 people in that kitchen, it was like all day they were like interviewing and like just churning through people. Yeah, so like I saw the line, I was like, there's no way I'm getting in. And then I somehow made it through the second one, and then when I got through the second round, I also was like, There's no way I'm going through because of so many people left, and then I I went through. Well, I didn't fucking want it. And then like it's so funny though, because I was so so the whole time through Master Chef, I was so sure I was gonna be eliminated so early, so never cancelled my flight, so I just kept pushing my flight back to Canada.
SPEAKER_03Just so you knew you had something, yeah. So like you know, if I if I don't make it, my flight's tomorrow. Yeah, exactly. Whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I feel that like me being so stingy and like so like yeah, literally stingy at the time. I was like, I'm not wasting that $2,000. I paid for my visa. Like I'm getting that. It's gonna happen. If if my job isn't there anymore because I've delayed it for too long, it's okay. Like I'll I'll I'll find work there. Um it's good.
SPEAKER_03You had it, you had you had an exit strategy. Yeah, it's okay. And that's that's okay. Yeah, it's fine. You have your options open. And going through MasterChef, um, you know, what did that feel like for you personally? Like, what was that journey like? It was it would have been a different journey than anything you've ever been on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so it's I find it really interesting because I feel like I've sugarcoated it a lot, but like Master Chef was so I was I was going through a mental period during during MasterChef. So it was like had a bad breakup in New Zealand, uh decided I wanted to leave New Zealand for good, and I was like, f this, like the Southern Hemisphere, that's why I was gonna go to Canada. It's like very impulsive of me. And um so Master Chef was kind of a reflective time, but also like a hard time for me psychologically. But it really worked in my favour because I've always practiced cooking when I've just going through so much shit in my head. So like it somehow was like it was no it was like no other space. Like when I walked into that kitchen every day for a challenge, it was like I locked in a whole new version of me that I never knew existed, and it was like I was went back to the kitchen in New Zealand, like it was like no one could talk to me. It was yeah, I just loved it.
SPEAKER_03What was the moment in MasterChef at what point did you feel like I'm gonna win this fashion thing?
SPEAKER_00Uh probably not until like when I was top five when I went to Hong Kong and um Vicky Chang at the time when I went and had to recreate a mission to start dish, he was being full serious. Like he looked at me the way I worked, and he was like, You can actually be such a good chef. Like he was like, You you're a chef, like you're a chef already. Imagine what you could become if you just put hours into it. And I was like, in my head, I was like, mate, I've put some fing hours in.
SPEAKER_04I put 16 hours you don't know what Spotify playlists to listen to, bro.
SPEAKER_00I've got 182 Spotify playlists, like I have a problem. I'm like, it's so bad. And like all my housemates know, like they have complained about how long I cook for. Like I used to sleep like an average of three hours because I was I'd just be in the kitchen.
SPEAKER_03And that wasn't a sense because you were in an industry where you had to work, you just did that out of that was your release.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but that was after working as a barista. So I'd be working like 6 a.m. to 2 p.m. and then I'd go home, just cook all night until like 3am. Wow. Yeah, it was a problem.
SPEAKER_03And you win Master Chef, you take out the title, what was your favourite dish during that period?
SPEAKER_00It's actually really funny, but the first and the last one.
SPEAKER_03And why is that and what was it?
SPEAKER_00Uh so the first one was the kangaroo love, the one that everyone kind of like was wowed about. And then the last one, um, for the first challenge before I did like Claire Smith's last three mission star dessert was the Say Uh Scotch egg, which was a scotch egg with Thai Northern Thai sausage around it, um, with a very, very typical Thai dip that you would never ever see in any Thai restaurant here.
SPEAKER_03Is it someone your grandma taught you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my grandma and like it's um what what we would eat in Northern Thailand. So my parents have a house in Chiang Mai now, and just because we I've been to Chiang Mai. Yeah, we all hate the heat. Um, but yeah, Nampriknum is a like a charred green chili uh dip that you smash in the morning pestle with lime and um roasted garlic and shallots as well. It's so yum. But I was really proud of those dishes because it was like really putting Thai food on the map that was like other food than just like the royal Thai central cuisine. It was I just really wanted to showcase regional Thai food as well, and it's the stuff that I actually eat and my parents actually eat. But like we we don't really eat curries like at all, like muscle and curry, like on the odd occasion, like I love them, I love pat thai as well. Like I eat pathai quite often in Thailand, but I'm very picky at where I go get it, obviously. But all the dips and like the fresh vegetables and like the fermented sausages and stuff like that, are all things that you know I don't really see much in Thai food. Um here. So and I just wanted to show the whole entire world.
SPEAKER_03It was when I realized that I could you had a platform there to showcase what you're about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that was I would thank my dad for that because my dad didn't honestly my parents when I told them I was going Master Chef, they kind of were like they it was just like oh reality TV, whatever. But then they my dad went deep into researching on how big the platform was, how many countries it was shown, and my dad was like, nah, you have such a big responsibility now to put Thailand on the map. And I was like, Whoa, like I was like, Jesus Christ, such such a dad, eh?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, such a proud, such a proud father.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And he was just like, This is your chance, like Thai food needs to make a comeback because it's kind of plateaued, it's always out and takeaway containers, like there's so much more to Thai food, there's so many more stories. Like, we're the only country in Southeast Asia to not have been colonized, you know. Like, we're it's like there's so much rich history, and it's really interesting because on Master Chef I was doing so many different dishes, and people were like arguing online, like on Reddit. Like, my brother had so much fun reading all the Reddit comments and all the dishes I did, and like people say not to do it, but I actually like found it hilarious. It means that people were talking about it, you know. And like I was doing like a Thai version of Hainese chicken, and people were like, That's not even Thai. It's like, yeah, it is. Like, did you know that the most the biggest population outside of China, like Chinese population is Bangkok? No one knows that.
SPEAKER_03Like I didn't know that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's and we have so much Chinese food. Like, my grandma is was raised on Chinese Thai food, and so like there's a huge Chinese influence, and then like a lot of our desserts that egg base are massively Portuguese because we have a big Portuguese Portuguese community in Bangkok as well, but no one knows about that, and people were like, that's Portuguese, that's this, that's that.
SPEAKER_03I'm like, No, that's Thai.
SPEAKER_00It's Thai.
SPEAKER_03And how do you deal with that hate?
SPEAKER_00Uh I it I'm so stubborn, but it fueled me. It as in like in a good way. I was like, yeah, I can't wait for people to debate more about this stuff.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you'd harness it, yeah, put it in your Spotify playlist and just go. Yeah, yeah. I I loved it. You know, the next potential winner is probably watching this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So what's what's one piece of advice you'd give them? Like to go out and do the application.
SPEAKER_00I think just like really, really cook. It's so cheesy, but really cook with your heart and soul. Like, like you want to feel it kind of like leaching out of your skin. Sounds gross actually. But like, I feel like um when I was cooking, it was just all made, that was like it was all the energy that was flowing out, and I don't know, don't like don't compare. I think what people do quite a lot is like they compare at what other people are doing, at what the industry is doing. But if you're just cooking what you love and you really like a like what you do and the flavours that are coming out, like I think you can't go wrong.
SPEAKER_03And that's that's beautiful, right? And what's next for you? Where are you at now? What's your journey looking like?
SPEAKER_00So I'm working at Venamont at the moment. I'm there, like they they call me chef de part-time because I'm Chef de part-time. They're so they're actually so nice to me, um, super patient. But they I went there to starge um because I went to core in London, I went to Jamie Oliver's restaurant, I came back and I was like, told Hugh Allen. I was like, I'm not doing fine dining. Like I love fine dining, I love like because I I feel like the artist side of me kind of likes that kind of particular stuff. But after you know, seeing the culture and like the really, really long hours, I was like, oh, I don't know about this. Like I told Hugh, I was like, nah, I can't. It's like very like as a woman as well, I was like, it is intense. Like, I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna deal with this, like mentally. And then he was like, nah, like come to Vu, like you'll probably change your mind. And I was like, nah. And he was like, just come try like one day. And I tried one day, I was like, okay, give me give me a second day, tried the second day, and then um I was like, okay, I'm happy to start here like three days a week. Like, I don't care, I can work as a brewerist until I work out what to do. And they offered me a job. Um, so I worked there when I'm in Melbourne, but then when I'm not in Melbourne, I'm just hustling, like I'm doing uh pop-ups. So I just did my first docu series. Well uh in Sylvia. Yeah, fully funded that because you know, I was very stubborn about wanting to do my own thing, wanted to kind of like try and pitch this idea to the world where I wanted to showcase the hardships of hospitality, but then the fun stuff, but then like all the prep that's involved and the importance of like honoring place and time. Of each country and their produce. So, like not going to a place like South Korea and be like, this is my food, and this is the ingredients that I'm gonna bring in, but rather it's more like what's the ingredients I can have there?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, what's the culture about?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and then adapting it.
SPEAKER_03And adapting it with your with your little flair.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I did that and did that in Hong Kong as well. And um I want to try and keep doing that because it it really helps me become more creative as a chef, it helps me become better as a chef, like delegating, learning how other kitchens work. And I am such an adaptive person, and I'm always so surprised how adaptive I am every time I go to a country and do a pop-up. I'm like literally, there's like a little mini proud moment where I'm like, I don't know how I do that. But so that that side is like taking the creative side, taking like, you know, it's a reminder that I can cook, and then like doing voodoo is literally just trying to become a better chef in like that kind of area. But then like at home, I'm like practicing how to like Rocher and Canal. Like I don't think people realize, but like, and so many people forget this, but I went on Master Chef as a home cook. Like my knife skills are fing shocking, like they're so they're actually so bad. So like I'm spending so much time like learning how to you know use a turning knife because I didn't know what a turning knife was. Um trying to like brunoise shallots, learning like all the different terms. Like, I didn't realize that I was emulsifying like ages ago, but like you know, learning like the proper terms and how to do it, learning how to make ice creams, and honestly, practicing rochering, like especially for Venamon, like when we're rochering into our uh souffles, it's really embarrassing if you do something that looks like a poo and you're putting it into the chocolate souffle. It's not it's a double chocolate souffle, it's like it doesn't look pretty, it doesn't look pretty.
SPEAKER_04So it's like a style shit with a freaking look, you went from dicks to shits, it's it's all gone.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, it's a transition so much for that PR training. Um so I want to practice my rochers, but like just things like that, and really putting the hours in. Um it's become a problem at the moment though, because I I'm I get really obsessed, and I wouldn't say I'm like a perfectionist, but I want to be better. But it's become a problem where at the moment I'm like drawing and recreating dishes at home, I can't sleep. I'm like I get home from Vu and I'm like rochering, I'm wake up in the morning and I'm cutting onions, like I'm just like But you know Nat, like I don't I'm not trying to say this in in any bad way, and I'm all for work-life balance.
SPEAKER_03But if you want something, it's only one way that you're gonna get it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And you gotta put in the hours, you gotta put in the time. And if you don't, but it's very critical that the time that you're putting in is effective. Yeah. And that comes with maturity. You've burnt hours before, you've burnt time doing stupid shit. Yeah. Right? Let's let's let's let's come to that. Yeah. But now what you're doing is you're you're you're catching up with your skill set. You've gone through you've gone through a competition, faced the public eye, gone through media training, your whole world tipped upside down, okay? And I see a lot of hospitality professionals, we we sit at the table every day. I'm telling you now, and I'm calling this out, you're gonna be like You're gonna be probably one of Australia's best chefs, hands down. I'll say it to you now. No pressure, no pressure, no, and it's the same pressure that your dad's giving you, but I'm telling you now because I can call it when I see it, and this is truthful. If you stay to what you're doing, you know the level of what burns yourself out. You know that level of burning yourself out. You've gone through anxiety, you've gone through depression, you've gone through that hardship, but what you're doing is you're cultivating your skills, you're building your toolbox, you're sharpening your knives, you're not doing anything wrong.
SPEAKER_00That's how I became so good at making coffee. Like, I literally code black had like a coffee machine behind that was like, you know, if you want to get better, it's up to you. If you want to get into the world championships, if you want to get to you know the level that you want to be, you can go after hours and practice, and that that's all I did. And like I like literally was so embarrassed because my latte art wasn't symmetrical, and I like literally like just forced myself in one week to to make the most perfect symmetrical latte art, and just because I was like, nah, not having half-ass shit.
SPEAKER_03That's amazing. Uh my only recommendation is just always check in with yourself, yeah, and make sure that you keep a healthy lifestyle. Ivan Brahim from uh our friend in Singapore, he literally says, Remember to drink water, go to the toilet and eat. Yeah. And breathe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Umbrella breathing in the in eating.
SPEAKER_03You should breathe. Try some breathing exercise. Seriously, breathing helps. Breathing helped me. Like I it sometimes I'd have like miniature panic at panic attacks with certain things, but you just need to breathe. And if you learn how to breathe, it helps so much. It helps so much. Yeah, generally.
SPEAKER_00I do this um thing with all my friends and family, and it's funny because it's spinning the other way, but like I would always ask people on like a scale on a scale of zero to ten, how satisfied are you with your life, and then I'll ask them what do you need more of in your life, and then what do you need less of in your life? And then I ask them on a scale of zero to ten, how happy are you? Because it's different to satisfaction, and then they like they always get stunned, they're like, Oh, I just answered like the the satisfaction like it was happiness, but it's so different. Wow, so so different.
SPEAKER_03Do you ask that to yourself?
SPEAKER_00I don't, but like I'm trying to, but like I I've been a lot of people have been asking me that because I haven't really stopped for like a while now, and I think people can feel it because like you know, I'm just very like.
SPEAKER_03Well, we had Morgie on the pod not long ago. Yeah, and if you listen to that pod, you would have learned something.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I did.
SPEAKER_03Stop and smell the roses, yeah, exactly. And what's next for you after this? What do you think? What's in your peripherals? What do you want to do?
SPEAKER_00I'm writing a book. Nice. A cookbook, beautiful. So that comes out in November.
SPEAKER_03Congratulations.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so that's really exciting. Um it's actually probably one of the things that have been in the back of my mind the most, so and is like driving the most of my anxiety because it's like one, not no one has written a cookbook, like a Thai cookbook with this many regional stuff since David Thompson. So that's a lot of pressure. And also two, I'm like it's a really adaptive way of approaching Thai food as well. So the idea is that you can make Thai food everywhere and anywhere. So I it's I feel like Thai people or people in general might be like, you can't do that, you can't adapt, you can't just adapt that ingredient with that ingredient. But to me, I'm the whole point is that you can, is that you can still make Thai flavours. Like I could make Thai flavours in Seoul with their produce, and their produce isn't even close to Thai produce, you know what I mean? It's just like how to understand the flavours.
SPEAKER_03We've got to do a Jordanian one, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, we should, we should. Honestly, I'm meant to be going to Kazakhstan, so like that would be interesting as well. Amazing in the middle of nowhere, but yeah, so the cookbook and I'm gonna try and do more pop-ups, and then go to Thailand and um, you know, meet everyone there because everyone's very excited to meet me.
SPEAKER_03One more question I have for you. Oh god, look in that barrel of the camera. If there's something you could have told yourself a year ago before all this, what's one piece of advice you would have told yourself?
SPEAKER_00Be kind to yourself and be proud of yourself. Way too hard on myself.
SPEAKER_03Be kind to yourself and be proud of yourself, Nat. Yeah, congratulations again. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. We can't wait for the book launch. Keep us posted, we'll share it around. I want a signed copy, yes, and I want to try some food. I'm gonna come over when I come to Melbourne. Yeah, and you're gonna cook for me after six hours. Yeah. Uh nice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_03All right, thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, thank you so much.