SPEAKER_00 0:00

Tell me a little bit about how you become a chef.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

He was 26 when he opened that restaurant. That was kind of like my goal, you know. Like I want to be able to beat my dad. I want to be able to own a restaurant or be a chef by that age.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Do you think that comes from your Japanese heritage?

SPEAKER_01 0:14

I think it comes from my dad. My dad's advice to me for everything I did was you just gotta be the best.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

What's one piece of advice you'd give him right now?

SPEAKER_01 0:24

You gotta know how to play the game. Meaning.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Chase. Paul. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Tired. Why? Why? I'm 42. Come on, man. It's 7:30.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

7.30 on a Friday night.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

7.30 on a Friday night.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

And you're here with me.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Can't get any better.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

I'm blessed. No, thanks for having me. No, man, it's uh it's it's been a long time coming. I've been I reckon I've been following you now for about six years. Six years. Been a fanboy. Loved your work.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

You know, you've uh you've really, in my eyes, to be honest, you really shaped the Japanese food scene in Sydney. You added in a different element, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Thank you. Um I really appreciate what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

That's like from, you know, I've I've eaten at a lot of Japanese restaurants, and uh in 2013 when I visited Japan, you know, I've had I truly haven't had sashimi. I I had one like slight amakaze experience when you were at Sokio. Yeah. And uh I truly felt like I was in in Tokyo. So like, yeah, congratulations on what you what you did and what you built there and the team that you built there because what I felt when you were there, you were running it like a well-ordered machine. It was like it was a great product, amazing, like everything that was coming out of the kitchen was like phenomenal, well balanced.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Again, thank you. It's uh we worked hard, you know, and the team is you know better than ever. So without the team, can't can't get can't get to that point, I think.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Tell me tell me a little bit about your uh your story. How'd you how'd you come to Australia? How'd you become a chef? Let's start with how'd you get into hospitality?

SPEAKER_01 2:41

So um I was born and raised in San Francisco, California. And uh my father, he he he's Japanese, uh born in Hokkaido, Japan. Um but he trained under lots of like uh masters in Japan. And he worked, he he left his house, I think, when he was 13. Uh yeah. High school, I don't think he graduated, and he just worked at this um Japanese restaurant uh where he just kind of trained. And then um, yeah, like he he you know, he he you know, he he was very talented, way more talented than me. Um but yeah, when he arrived in uh San Francisco, I think it was um probably 1979 or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

How old was he then?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

I think he was 22 or 23.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

And then um he he went to help open a Japanese restaurant. And then, you know, he met my mom. Um he eventually opened his own restaurant when I was born.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

And that was 1982.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

I think I've seen a photo on your Instagram once.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah, they're they looked gangster.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Japanese gangster. But yeah, he was 26 when he opened that restaurant. And that that was kind of like my goal, you know. Like I want to be able to beat my dad. I want to be able to, you know, own a restaurant or be a hair chef by that age. Or, you know, so I was always kind of erasing that. But yeah, like I worked for my dad for many years, um, probably since like seven or eight. I I always keep changing that that age because um I don't want to get anyone in trouble. But I was always helping, uh, my mom was also helping the restaurant. So I was literally sleeping the restaurant. Like no one's at home, so we have to stay at the restaurant, you know. And we have like these tatami rooms where it's kind of like private rooms, and we just have our little blanket, we just sleep there. Uh my the kitchen was kind of like my you know, my play area. So yeah, like they'll be in service and I'll be that troubled kid, you know. I have a younger brother as well, so we both were there. Um, but you know, when when they're always working, you you naturally get into it, right? So I think I started off by like a bus boy, so clearing tables, dishwashing. Um it was a small restaurant, you know. I think it was like a 50-seater. It was called Kaboto Sushi. 50 or 60 seater, and then decent size, man. Actually, maybe it was a little bit bigger because we had a pretty good tatami room, but um, yeah, like the people in the kitchen, they're all Mexican and they don't speak English well. So, like when I was probably eight or nine and helping dishwash, and then I still remember like the guy's like, you, girl, me, man, like he would he would he would express that I need to go faster, more, I have to wash harder, you know. Um and yeah, like just communicating with these people without English was hard, you know. But I was already like kind of used to it from that age. And then, you know, I started to understand how to communicate without just English. But yeah, like just, you know, so I was already in the kitchens uh age eight, nine, and then I went to college. Um, I mean, I I I finished high school and then I went to college, but um it was like an IT company, uh, sorry, IT school. And then I graduated that, but um, it was exactly when 9-11 happened in America. So, you know, terrorist attack, and then you know, like a lot of horrible things were happening at that time, but basically there was no more jobs. I just graduated, but there was no jobs, and I'm glad because I don't think I could have done it well, you know. So, but my dad's restaurant was still busy, so you know, my dad's like, if you're not doing anything, come help. So that was when I was 18, right? 18, 18 or 19, and I'm like pretty much fully working for him for uh like maybe a year and a half to two. And then I said, Hey, I want to work at better restaurant, not better restaurant, but I want to move on, you know. So um that time my dad had a couple of contacts through Nobu. Um, there was actually a couple of chefs who worked under my dad before, and then there were head chefs at different Nobu's. So um I was able to get in quite easily, but it wasn't like my dad was preparing me for like like you start from the bottom, you're gonna dishwash again, you know. You you have to learn from bottom, you know. And yeah, I was prepared for that. But I was able to kind of you know get the get the groove on and you know, just I had some skill already, so I was able to learn quickly. Uh the the best thing about how my dad was um he was super fast. Like, like if you watch him working, it looks like it's fast forward, like 1.5x.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Do you got any videos? You'd have to show me now, but I'd love to see him later.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

I I don't know where it is, to tell you the truth, but there there is some somewhere, I think. Maybe it's gone, but but even like a couple of years ago when I saw my dad working in the Umakasa restaurant in San Francisco, you can tell he's fast. Like, like, like like my friends would be like, damn, so powerful. And he's like 60 something, you know. Um, but yeah, that that's how I got into the whole hospitality. And at Nobu, I I was working there for about seven, eight years, learned a lot, you know, traveled a lot. Like, you know, once once I got to a position where um like a sous chef type of level, but but also I was in the creative side as well, because we have our freedom of omakase and nobu style omakase, and we we can create alongside Nobu Sun's uh flavors with, and then you can buy anything you want. So it's like I'm practicing for free, you know, and then giving it out to these guests. And that time, so I was in Vegas, and we were, I think, the only Nobu that had a one Michelin star. So, but yeah, they were growing, like they were growing as soon as like I got a little bit better. So I went to San Diego to help open their uh one in Lacianaga, their second one. Sorry, San Diego, and then um Beverly Hills, their second one, Dubai, Bahamas, and then I and then I was able to do a little cross-training in London. They have three nobles at that time.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

How was it working for a group of that magnitude, like that size?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Well, I know I know a lot, but I know a lot that was going on. Um, but for me, like I'm so grateful that I was able to work there because it's it's like there's no good how do I say Nobu changed that Japanese scene, you know, like in the whole world. Like without without Nobu and Nobusan, there is no all these restaurants. That's there is no Sokio, there is no, you know, there is no none of these restaurants.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

So that they made it, they made it like a culture. They brought the culture, they brought the culture of of Japanese to like the Western world.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Yeah, I mean, not just Western, right? Like they he brought it back to Japan as well. First one it didn't work out because Japanese people um they truly believe in authenticity, and I'm the same as well, but like yeah, he he he changed the Japanese scene, and you know that that's why I respect him so much.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

And did you work directly under Nobusan?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

I didn't work directly under him, I worked under people who was directly under him, but um, but he comes around, you know. He he has he has a very hard schedule. Like he I think he sleeps in his LA house maybe 14 days a year, you know, and then maybe seven to fourteen days a year in Japan. Like he has a couple houses, right? But like he's traveling all the time. And when he does come around, and you know, we'll be going to the events with Nobutan as well, but he's so good. Like, like he he's he's actually legit like good, like like scary good, actually. Yeah, I'll screw up sometime under pressure and he'll be like, Jace, like did you do this? Like, oh like he he he but then he but then he'll turn around with that same food and then he'll bring it back out to the guest and like oh this is this this this and then he'll play a cool he he he he took the hit not he took the hit but he wouldn't make bad bad in front of anyone well because it looks bad overall for the business, right? Um that was that was in Dubai. I was still like just like learning, you know, but yeah, like he attention to details and you know he has so many of these restaurants, they're all still fine dining, every single one of them. I mean, like the quality is good. There's one here in Sydney as well. Um but Sydney people is quite um not spoiled, but they know food.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Yeah, I've but can I I'm gonna be honest here, and this doesn't have to be shot in. We can Ben, we can edit this out. This is just between you and I. The the the Sydney one for me, I've been there three times. It's been horrible. And I don't know, like we're not gonna cut this out. You don't want to cut it? The Mel the Melbourne one has been great, but then after COVID, after COVID, it it it like you know what I feel like has been the lack for Sydney, Melbourne in the Crown Resort group, it's been the the lack of that they're such big fit-outs, but they don't have enough staff. Like they don't have I don't know if the training programs aren't running properly. Like when I've had Nobu overseas, it's been amazing.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

But you're the numbers guy.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yeah, but like I'm just trying to think. When I looked at things, like I'll give you an example. When I was in when I was in Melbourne, this happened to me in Melbourne on my last trip, and it really upset me. I went to Nobu because my wife loves Nobu. She actually loves it, she loves the vibe, she loves the culture. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. You want to go to Nobu? Let's go for let's go to Noble. I love Nobu, you know, and you you know it's sexy, you have loud music. We went in, the music was real low, it was dormant. We're like, okay, sweet. I ordered a nice bottle of wine, yeah, get to the table, smells like eggs, it's corked.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Oh, okay, gone.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

And I go to the I go to the sommelier at the term time. I said, This is corked. And she goes, no, it's not. Oh I said, are you a sommelier? She goes, No, I'm not.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Okay, well.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

I said, Have you tried this wine before? She goes, no, I haven't. So I said, how can you tell me it's not corked? I said, I drink this wine.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

You can check my Vivina, I've probably had it like eight times. Right?

SPEAKER_01 14:58

That's her and not the Nobu. Not the Nobu?

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Right. But what but what the issue was was they don't have the active leadership team in there to deal with the situation.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah, no, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

So whether I don't know how Nobu's run in Australia, whether it's under a different management, whether it's just a license, I don't know what the go is. But from my current experiences, and I'm not shaming anyone, I don't know if it's changed recently. I haven't stepped into a Nobu since last year, 2023. But I've had upsetting experiences when in 2019 I was like, if I go to Melbourne, you need to go to Nobu. Like if you don't go to Nobu, you're not you're not enjoying Melbourne.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

And that's been this, and I know that COVID's been a hard thing, and I'm not here to, you know, rubbish businesses or anything like that. Yeah. But when I was in Miami, I went to Nobu. Phenomenal. Well, the beach club vibe, the hotel was amazing, you know. So, but you know, so what what level did you get up to when you were in that amazing organization?

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Um, so when I was, I think 26, 25 to 26, I went to Bahamas as the head sushi chef. And, you know, again, I was telling you, I was trying to race my dad, right? But yeah, like uh when once you get to the head chef position, um then you see everything. Um, you need to manage everything, and it's international as well. And then the company, the hospitality, uh noble hospitality company, they will have rules where we can never break, you know. For example, if a guest wants chicken, sinezzo, avocado roll, we can say no. You know, now I don't know, but there was like rules in there. It's just it's just the basic like things that we we we are we were allowed to say no. So I mean I I learned so much from there, man. Like like like I had a really hard boss, and you know, I hope he doesn't listen to this. I mean, I respect him, you know. I I got I got punished for anything that I didn't do well, you know. And then it made me learn faster.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

It made me learn But punished in the way that you would feel like you weren't losing your job punished, or you're warned like pretty hard.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

The Japanese, the Japanese culture uh in the kitchen, and I think it's similar to like the New York style French restaurants and you know, in in Europe and it's brutal. It's really, really brutal. Like you know, you you hear these things where there's like like like hitting and all this, you know. Mine wasn't as obvious, but it was pretty bad. Like I would, I would um I would get thrown into the garbage bin. I just I just threw out like fishes and stuff, and I'll just get I'll just get dropped in there, you know. Um but it wasn't it wasn't noble restaurant, it was them, you know. It was them and they're taking advantage of it, but whatever, like when you get this much abuse though, you naturally do it too, eventually. So, you know, and then you and it takes a little bit of time to understand, okay, it's it's not okay. It wasn't okay before, I took it. Thank you. I I'm stronger now, but it's not okay to I do it, right? So it was hard. Like, like I I think I I mean, I I don't think I I was abusive or anything, but like I was quite intense as well. So when I came to Sydney to open Soyo, how'd that happen? How that happened? Um I was hit-hunted by uh the star. And um they flew me first. I had a holiday. I had a hole. See, the thing is, I because I traveled a lot for Nobu and I was working a lot, a lot of time as a Omakasa chef where I was at the counted, people seen me already. Like I was kind of being recognized as one of the, I don't know, not key player or anybody, but like just a potential, right? And I was always creative as well. So yeah, I was, I was, I was like getting messages uh, I think through Facebook or something. Facebook or I forget, but yeah, I I I thought it was a scam, right? Like, hey, in Sydney, in about four years, we're about to open a new restaurant. Will you like will you be interested in coming, right? Because, you know, they do things way ahead, right? Like plan it way ahead. But anyways, um eventually, like after I, you know, had a couple of meetings, um I had a holiday planned at Tokyo. So I was in Japan, and then they flew me first class from Tokyo to Australia for like a one-week trip. And man, I fell in love. Like, this place is like whoa. As an American, we don't know Australia. Like, where is this place? Like, whoa. It's paradise, you know. Um and then yeah, like I was able to meet the people who grows the things I ate. I forgot which restaurants I ate at. Long grain, Tsuya's, Rock Bull Bar and Grill. This is 13 years ago? Yeah, well. 14 years ago. No, no, no, more, more back. 2009.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

That's when fine dining was like rocking in Sydney. Yeah. It was like that. I was blessed. Like my my dad would, you know, he would always take us out as kids, like, once every two or three months to a nice restaurant. And he would like literally train me how to hold a fork and knife and how to speak to a waiter and how to order your own food. Right? He would teach me like restaurant etiquette, not etiquette, yeah. Restaurant etiquette.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Right, restaurant etiquette.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

And even how like your signals of your fork and knife on how to communicate with the waiter without telling them I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Right? And he learned this all here by Observing he didn't understand. I don't even know the etiquette yet. Yeah. I just the chopsticks. He he literally taught me all that, and when I believe in like 2009, like some of the restaurants that you mentioned, like Rockpool was Rockpool Melbourne was like phenomenal. That was like an amazing. He loved Crown. No, Rockpool Melbourne, Rockpool Melbourne was like where I fell in love with a steakhouse. It was like my first like restaurant experience of a market price steak.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

And uh yeah, that was Rockpool was great, but it continues.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Um I forgot where I left off.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

But you're saying 2009, you finished, you you did a tour, you went to Longrain, you went to a couple nice restaurants in Sydney.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yeah. Oh, and then I had to do a food tasting as well. So yeah, I didn't sleep for like a day and a half to almost two days, just to get it all ready. And then I did a tasting on top of the the hotel. I think that time the that there was a restaurant called Astro, I think. I think it was called Astro, but yeah, like I just used their kitchen and I did a tasting and then they liked it and they're like, all right, we just signed papers and then that was it. Like I was here 2000, I think I was here 2009 or 2000, like beginning of 2010, and then we opened Sokyo 11 months after. I was here a bit early. And you know, we I had to learn the system of the the company there. Um, I was in many, many unnecessary meetings. It's quite boring, right? But there was a lot of things for for me to learn, and I was panicking because I don't know anything about Australian produce. I don't know anything. I have no friends, everything's backwards here. Uh backwards meaning like um, yeah, the car is everything. Even the how the and my friend told me the toilet flushes, it's backwards. Um yeah, everything was like like like Fahrenheit, Celsius, like all these things was different, right? But yeah, like I just spent all my paycheck money just dying out. Yeah. And I was just like, just I I ate a lot. Because that's the only way for me to learn quickly, you know. So my concept of Sokyo when well, how we got the name first is Tokyo meets Sydney, and then when you spell out Tokyo, and then you take out the T and replace it with the S for Sydney, and then that's how you get Sokio. Well, I don't think I said that right, but like whatever. It doesn't matter. It's it's um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

I understand it.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

But um, but yeah, like just it's important that time that we put a restaurant name or any title, and no one has it, you know? No one has it. So it's like hashtag Sokyo, boom. It's like, you know, you're not gonna have another copy. Uh there's a lot of copy now, but so the concept of that restaurant was I wanted to open up a restaurant that tastes like Tutsuyas, but more fun and more sexy, you know? And then the vibe was like Kill Bill, the movie. Um and then yeah, just Japanese food, Australian produce is so good, and then just with a little fun, you know, fun, fun twists.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

And how was it like working, you know, not just for the star, but other in casinos? What's that like?

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Well, in the beginning, I was purely focused on the restaurant, so you know, they don't allow you to work seven days, but I volunteerly didn't tell anybody. I just worked every day because I just wanted to get that hat. And Terry Derek came and you know, we fucked up. Uh, I don't even know if we allowed us where you can see. No, no, no. Like, like, like we weren't good. We weren't good enough. Um, I thought we were, because I was naive, right? But as a big restaurant, because it's a big restaurant. That's the problem. It's like how many seats. You got a lot of shitholes as well, you know, that you have to use. Uh, one guy, you know, he can break all your dishes, you know. Um, how many seats? 250. Well, but we would do a lot because you'd turn the table. The economy that time is strong. You know, we'll be like, we didn't have a non-busy day. Like from the get-go, it was busy.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

But so um, yeah, like first year, Momofuku got three hats, best restaurant, restaurant of the year. Black got a hat, uh, Bala got a hat. There's an Italian restaurant. And Sokio, we we didn't get a hat. So I felt horrible, you know. Like it was all like celebrated chefs, and then and then me. Uh, we were we were the most busiest restaurant, we were the most profitable restaurant, but we didn't have a hat. But I just felt so bad for the team and for my team. Like, so then uh one more year, I just did another seven days every day. Uh and then the the second year we got a hat. And that was probably my best day of my life at that time. Like myself and Brian Logan, my uh sous chef at the time, we just cried. Because like we were working so hard. Um yeah, it was it was amazing feeling. I was happy for everybody, and then I don't think they lost the sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Well, and what do you think between the year before and that year then, what was the major changes that you made to get that hack? In that beginning.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

I guess all the small details, you know, like when you work at Nobu, when you work at Nobu and then the restaurant's even busier, right? But when you get a VIP, we have to VIP first. 100% has to be VIP first.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

In Nobu or in Sokio?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

In Nobu. Okay. VIP and VIP first. VIP first meaning like focus goes to VIP. And I think I did that for Sokyo as well. Let's say if I noticed a Terry Durak or if I noticed a critic or whatever, right? But like it was inconsistent, basically. Like when I'm there, it's good. When I'm not there, it's not as good. Then we have a problem, you know. Um, I can't look after every single table. Like it's impossible. But when I do look after a table, it's mind-blowing, you know, what's that word? Like, I want to blow them away. But and then I want my team to be able to do that for every table. So I'm angry. Brian's angry. We're we're we're trying too hard. That's when you fuck things up, you know. That's when you miss things, small things, like like because you're hyper focused, you think? Because you're like, well as an executive chef, I have to see the whole picture. I have to see I have to see the whole restaurant, you know. Yes, of course we have to look after the VIP, of course we have to look after our boss and whoever, you know. But like I think I was just focused on certain time, certain dishes, and I wasn't just that I wasn't consistent, I think. You know, and then because of that, like my mood is up and down as well. So like I would be angry, and then the staff would scared. The morale, yeah. Well, they get scared and then they will freeze. And then when they're freeze, they can't think anymore. So underperform.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

So let's just say there's a restaurant owner out there right now listening to this podcast, and he's on that brink of trying to get that hat. What's one piece of advice you'd give him right now?

SPEAKER_01 30:35

Become friends with Terry Durek. No, just kidding. Um you gotta know how to play the game. Meaning, what is a one-hatted restaurant, you know? One-hatted restaurant is not, I am doing my absolute best, you know, sweating, working our ass off, and getting that hat. It has to be like you gotta build your muscles and you're easily running it smoothly, you know. It's not like, you know, you because after you get that hat, they're not gonna give you a hat thinking, okay, you were good twice, but still looks like there's certain things that might screw you guys over, you know, because they have their you know pride of giving people a hat. So now I think it's a lot easier after COVID, but before they're super strict. Like, there's some restaurants that I feel like, man, they should they deserve a hat. And I can't remember any, but like it's it's hard. But you you have to be able to, you know, be consistent. Eat like I know that the way I built it, I don't have to be there, and it's gonna be as good as if I'm there, you know. Meaning it took a long time for them to understand what I want, right? As uh the food and the service, and uh, you know, like if I walk in there and why is the music not on or it's slow or you know, just small details that my guys are able to catch, I think that it's all the small details, I think. I don't know if that was a good advice to the guy. Just don't open a restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

No, I I think I think what you like what I understood from that was you know, build up your muscle memory, relax into it, stop hyperfixating.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

Don't try too hard. If you try too hard, you're gonna screw it up, I think. You wanna work hard, but it shouldn't be like a chore. Yeah, you shouldn't be like, yeah, you should be easily finishing the marathon at the comfortable time or something like that. Like you you don't wanna I I ran a marathon and then I wanted my best time, and then I blew out my knee, and I couldn't I couldn't run for a year. It's not how you do the marathon, you know, like yeah. It's just my personality, I think. Yeah, it's just I just want to just try my absolute best till everything breaks.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Do you think that comes from your Japanese heritage?

SPEAKER_01 33:25

I think it comes from my dad. Um, yeah, every like my dad's advice to me for everything I did was you just gotta be the best. You gotta be number one. So playing baseball in the team, I gotta be um the cleanup guy, so uh the fourth batter. Sorry, Australia. We don't watch baseball.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

That's okay. You can you can just this podcast isn't just for Australians.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Oh, yeah, okay, fantastic. But basically, like he would teach me sports very, very strict. You know, I would miss a ball, and then he would say, take off that baseball glove. And then he would he would literally hit the ball, and I need I was doing shortstop at that time. So you would miss it. You would miss it because you're scared, you know. Like you wear a cup, so you know, you don't hit your balls, and but you're just scared because it hurts, you know, the ball's hard. My dad said, take off the glove, block it with your body, you know. Learn the pain, I guess, right? No, he wouldn't throw it. He would hit the he would hit the ball. Like, yeah, how you how will you do it? Bang. So I'll have to block it with my body now. Now I don't miss. Now thank God I have a glove. Like freaking easy now, you know. But that time, like, yeah. So like he he he was very um yeah, intense, like like in in that way. And I loved it. I loved it. Like I loved how he was, and yeah, the way he taught me in the restaurant as well. Like it was it was quite tough, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

But you knew he was doing it for your own good.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

He wasn't being mean, like there was no, like, there was no um, he was a big-hearted person, like very generous. Um, I think you can tell he did it with love. Yeah, and I think that's why when I train my team, I get a little bit too deep in the training. So I'm trying to take it easy these days.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

So when did you leave Serky officially?

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Uh I think October last year. October last year. 2023.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Right. And October November, around there. Nice. And what's been on the what's been on the cards for you now? I see you playing a new sport called pickleball at the moment. Yeah. In your free time.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Um, no, I'm gonna become a professional pickleball coach. No. I think uh the next restaurant that I'll be um opening is um a steakhouse, a Japanese Brazilian concept steakhouse in uh Bankstown.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

Wow. And and Bankstown, like for for people that don't know where Bankstown is, it's like west of the CBD.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Very west. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

I I I don't know Bankstown, Parramatta, you know, like I haven't been to the West that much because I was always living in the city. But yeah, like I wanted to do a new restaurant with um, I guess a new demographics of guests as well. You know, every time I open a new restaurant, how many restaurants I open in Sydney? But customer base is not all the same. And I'm not saying that's bad or anything. I'm very, very grateful for the people who come back, but you know, now I'm in a different town. Like I'm cooking for different people. And then the concept again also is it's halal. So it's it's hard because halal, no pork, that's okay. No alcohol. Japanese cooking, you use a lot of sake and meeting, a lot of Japanese-style um alcohol to bring out the cleanness into your sauce, you know. So it's been different. So I'm learning again. 42, I'm learning how to cook Japanese food without alcohol. Never thought this was happening. And damn, it's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Yeah. Yeah. And and why'd you why banks down, why the Japanese Brazilian, what brought about that concept?

SPEAKER_01 38:12

Um, well, I was taking a I was taking a break, you know. I was taking a break after um like from November to like maybe February. I was just taking a break. Like I was working all the time, you know, seven days. Because if you're an entrepreneur, it's normal seven days. Right? It's it's normal. But I was doing it not normal seven days. I think I was doing an intense seven days. And um, I was carrying too much. And I just wanted to, yeah, take a break. So I took a break, a good break. I think for the first three months, I was pretty, I don't know. I didn't know what break was. Like I just, I couldn't, I couldn't calm down. But once it hit almost four months, that's when my whole brain was just in a different place. I think I think I needed that break.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

It's like a reset.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Yeah, it I couldn't reset like the first month, second month, third month. I'm just like, oh, I need to do something or I need to like, I don't know. I I was kind of lost. But once it hit the fourth month, then then I just uh I became a different person. I was more calm and like just mind is clear. Uh motivation came back up, you know, because I wasn't motivated at the time. I think, you know, and it's a luxury to have a four month break. You know, just think about it. Four months vacation. Wow, how do you do that? Yeah, you know, it's a secret. But after that, yeah, um, I've been cooking every single day, um, cooking for myself every single day. I never did that in my life. I cook you know, steak and salads and you know, eat eating, eating extremely healthy, looking after myself um sports-wise, and you know, um, it fixed my sleep, it fixed everything, you know. Um talking to a lot of smart, good people. And I think yeah, now like I just want to try to get this restaurant open nice and strong.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Uh hopefully what led you, what led you to the Japanese Brazilian concept?

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Oh, um, well, I had a bunch of like when when the news came out about uh my departure of Sokyo, um I I felt like a really pretty young lady. Like I was just getting asked out from all these different businessmen, you know. Um so I had a lot of options, and I was just kind of you know, slowly kind of, you know, checking checking it out, like like listening to people. Can I trust these people, you know? And then um, but the thing is when you're an entrepreneur for so long, it's hard to work for somebody, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

So you you you keep saying the word entrepreneur. So you're working for Sokio and then you are entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Um so in the beginning, I was working for the star, yes. And then um after a little bit, let's say three years, I was able to put myself into uh somewhat like a not a partnership, but basically same package, and I was able to become um like more like a partnership contract. So I wasn't employee anymore. And then because I wanted to do more, so that's why I, you know, I had a burger shop before, um, I had lamin shops, I had um, you know, I had my own central kitchen, had my takeaway business. Like I was I was in, I was interested in the business side. Um and I wish I met you that time. But so so yeah, like as an entrepreneur, you know, self-ball, self-employed or whatever, it was hard for me to just work for somebody. So I took, I just took my time, you know. Yes, of course I could work for somebody, but like, you know, I want to work for somebody that's I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Aligned with you.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Well, someone that I uh that I highly respect and and I want to learn from, you know. So I'm in that position right now at the moment, you know, uh my silent boss, and then um and then he's like, I want to open up a Japanese Brazilian. And I said, All right, is it okay I make it a Japanese Brazilian steakhouse, please?

SPEAKER_00 43:17

You said that? Oh, he said that. No, I said that.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Okay, yeah. I think I think I wanted I always wanted to open up a steakhouse. Okay. Yeah. I think like, you know, I think it's like that, that in that order. Like you open your first restaurant and then like Rockpool and then Rockpool Bar and Grill, you open your steakhouse, you know. It's the same restaurant, but you know, the the layout's a little bit different. You know, you're focused on more good steaks and you know, like that whole, I don't know. It it's it's the luxurious type of dine dining, right? I don't even know if I said that. Were right the most luxurious type of dog, the most luxurious, yes. But yeah, I just wanted to open up a steakhouse. I thought I thought that'd be cool. I never did it before, I never did how I never did I never did this, so like I want to do something new, yeah, and that's my problem.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Yeah, and how have you uh been able, you know, if there's if there's a chef out there uh just like you in a transition and has a bunch of options like you did? What's one piece of advice you'd give them when navigating picking the right business partner to go with? Um considering they haven't had exposure like you to business. Imagine your ex-sous chef. What was his name?

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Ex-suchef oh Brian Logan.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Imagine Brian Logan came to you right now and said, Hey, I've got 10 offers on the table.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

How the fuck do I make the right decision?

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Yeah. I mean, you know, and this might sound weird, but you know, I I'll I'm I'm a chef. I I was a chef, I'm a chef, you know. And it's a hard job, right? So, and and yes, it's they're usually like not underpaid, but like it's it's less than other industries for the amount of work that you might have to put in. So, you know, all chefs know that. They they they a little bit self-pity, you know. So what that means is once they see a good offer, and it might not even be real, you know, they can easily get manipulated. And, you know, you don't even know this guy, or you don't even know this company, or you know, okay, yeah, you're getting 10k more a year, or 12k more a year, or or even more, whatever, you know, tip, whatever. Like they would actually move because of just just these small things. They won't they won't want to stick with the the restaurant that they're at unless they're being you know looked after, looked after meaning with care, you know. Like, and that's why there's so many movements, you know. The ro the what's it called?

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Like the rotation.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Uh like the you know, like people don't stick around. The the the chefs don't stick around. Um, so you know, I say I'll say be careful uh when you're choosing, you know. Like I wouldn't say go with your gut feeling because how many times I did a mistake on that, but like just you gotta do your homework. Who are they? What are they offering you? Use your lawyer, read the damn contract for reels, right? And yeah, like, and then you're on your own, you know. Make sure you make sure you do the right thing. Like you do your homework, do you gotta do your homework? Like, that's the that's the that's the one part where I think most of the people miss. I think like they they they think there isn't bad people out there, you know, because yeah, maybe there isn't that many bad chefs, like meaning evil, but I'm sure like businesses, there's no there's no fair game, you know. Everyone is out there trying to win, and business is brutal, very, very brutal. I I learned it the hard way multiple times. Um I don't think I'm personally my personality is is good in business. I don't think.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

You know, Chase, what I do with anyone that wants to move in their career and they they come to the dojo for a mentorship.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

The first thing I do when they sign up is a character test. I get them to do a psychological character test. They do a survey for me, open-ended answers, and then it ranks the top the the 50 traits in an order. I'll give you one example. I have a guy who's transitioning from working in a family business, going out, to starting his own thing. He's got the money, he's got the concept, just doesn't have that way to turn, right? So he's reached out to me to help him to guide him along the process. So, what I do, I take him through a uh a four-month mentorship where I literally check in with them once a week for an hour and they have access to me on WhatsApp. Yeah. 24-7. Because they're going through a change. Yeah. And it's a life change. After I do this character test, there's certain decisions along the way that your character and your traits can impact. This guy's about to sign a lease. His first trait, which his number one is, is honesty.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Don't do business.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Well, that's that's what I need to work on with him. I'm like, I know you're an honest guy, you're you're an amazing human, but there are sharks that capitalise on that. Yeah, that's the reality of business. Sharks look for those opportunities.

unknown 49:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

So when you have an honest guy and he's about to go sign a lease, he goes and shows, it's like he's playing poker, but he shows all his cards.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

What's going to happen to you then? If you want to go buy a fridge, you show all your cards because you're an honest guy. You you don't know how to lie and deceive people because you're an honest person.

unknown 50:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Right? And unfortunately, in business, it's about strategy. I'm not saying being dishonest is a good businessman, but being too honest is gonna hurt you.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah, don't show all your cards.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

So um that's that's how that's how I've been able to navigate and help people. And now when when uh in the HR structure of anyone that gets employed, I make sure that these guys, when they open their businesses, they follow the same protocol and they do these character tests. Because it's important to know about your employee and what the type of person they are.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Yeah, like like I just said, like, and and that clearly makes sense what you just said. And yeah, like just it takes a it takes some time to understand how business works and that character test, and if you know that there are a certain type of person that will probably just easily open up to someone, they're the they're the ones really uh like high risk.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Well, I think the best thing is like if you don't know what you don't know, then you don't know what you're gonna fall into. Yeah, but if you know now what you didn't know, at least you know how to navigate it.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Right? Yeah. And that's that's what I find, especially because chefs are such creative and artistic people, and then you get dumped with numbers and fucking taxes and payroll and lease negotiations and supplies being delayed and equipment breaking down, that's not in your job description, that's not you learn at culinary school. But for you to for you to for you to go and excel in that, you need to know all that. So I always tell chefs, if there's someone that you like, work, if there's someone that you want to be like, go work for them. And be open and transparent with them. Be like, hey, listen, I love how you operate business. I want to open my own venue one day, not to compete with you, but just to better myself, and I feel like I need to learn off you. And if they tell you you work for me, but you work for free, that is the best investment you're gonna make in your fucking life.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

I think so. I think you know, like you just said, like there's a lot that you don't know. So keep investigating on what you need to improve on, especially on the business side. Um then, yeah, hopefully when you think you're ready, you get you try your best. But I say you need to have partners like who's actually in the business, meaning not just an investor, you know, not just a mentor or supporter. You need someone who's actually like, yes, skin in the game, but also they're there they specialize on something that's in the part of the business. So for example, let's say in your case, you say you're good with numbers, then you know, we, and if you're my partner, I will pass that to you. And then don't worry about the kitchen.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

Or don't worry about the restaurant operation. And then you tell me, hey Chase, why is the labor too high? Can we make it to that?

SPEAKER_00 54:04

And we get it.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Then I know, oh okay. I thought we, I thought we have you know enough money to no, no, no, look at this. These all these bills are coming, man. No, no, no. Change the menu, cut one, what? Yeah, make it tighter. You know, I think, I think people will benefit so much from what you can teach. And they don't even know about it. That's the thing. You know, it's too late. By the time you find out, oh shoot, like you're already like, by the time you find out, you're pretty much gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Yeah, I guess, well, that's that's the whole point of that's the whole point of this podcast, right? To be honest. And my platform is that I want to help build the next generation of hospitality professionals and give them that actionable guidance and learn from the mistakes that we've made. Right? Because I still believe that hospitality is one of the best industries in the world. And I love it, and I never ever want to leave it. I did at one point in my life, I was ready to literally hand in my apron, as they'd say, but I said, why would I go hand in my apron when I know a recipe to potentially fix this? You know, and how to make it better for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

I think you know the the like I could feel the not that you're already good at how to fix things, but you literally save lives. You literally save businesses, you know. It might be a great restaurant. It's just that they don't know certain small things. And then it just without knowing that you can't keep it open, you know, or you can't make any money. So yeah, you're a hero.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

What's what's one thing thing? I'm not a hero yet, man. I'm I'm I'm I'm I don't think can you be my hero? I'll always be in your corner, Chase. I've sub I honestly and I always say this openly, I still think to this day, some of the best Japanese food in Sydney I've eaten from your hands. And that's honestly, you know, because you you brought a different passion. What would you say has been the biggest highlight of your career to date?

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Biggest highlight.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Um I know you said the hat was the happiest day at your life at that point.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

I think now I'm able to actually sit down, and this is funny because we're doing our actual podcast, but now I can actually sit down and talk to smart people. Before I couldn't, because I'm only talking to my chefs or I'm talking to my restaurant people, or you know, you're talking in the same industry. Now I can, you know, now I can serve amazing people, right? Could be, I don't know, an athlete or a lawyer or uh whoever, but I can also have a conversation with them. And for me, that's in this doesn't even sound like a highlight, but for me, I'm very proud that I'm able to actually have conversations with them, like real conversations, you know, not hey, how was the food? You know, I hope you're enjoying blah blah blah. This is uh wagyu. No, like I'm actually able to, you know, talk to these people, but like like not even just during dinner, but like after dinner, or you know, if they come again, or you know.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

And what do you think has allowed you to do that? Like if there's if there's I think I I know what you meant. When you meant smart, you meant you weren't condescending the kitchen in regards to their their knowledge. You were just saying you're able to deal with people outside your normal working environment.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

Yeah, so thank you for helping me uh say it like that.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

Yeah. Because I know what you meant, I know what type of person you are.

SPEAKER_01 58:48

I I mean, you know, it's because I don't know outside of restaurant industry, I don't know the business side of certain businesses. So I get fascinated in multiple different things, you know, and talking to them and they're able to share it back to me, their tips, and then I bring it back to my restaurant, I guess, and my business.

SPEAKER_00 59:16

Or you see how it relates. You go, oh, what he said here might relate to how I do this here.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Yeah, like you know, I don't have you know good clothes, but I love fashion. So, you know, Virgil Obalo from Off White, you know, he passed away. He's the same age, wait, I think he's the same age as me, or maybe one year older. Anyways, you know, his physical his philosophy in the in his food, uh sorry, in his design. And then I'm like, wow, it's very similar to mine. And I could have these kind of conversations with the people who don't know how to do restaurant business or food, to let's say, again, like a lawyer, you know, or an athlete. And then they're able to speak from their vision of how they do their profession, and it's just such an interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:15

And how did you pick up to do that? What did you do different?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Good question. I think I just got smarter somehow.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

How? But I think there's a way.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

Think doing the business, and you just have to be fli like creative sometimes, you know? Like creative meaning. And I just listened and read a lot to get to that point, I think, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:45

Was there one book that stood out to you?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:51

A lot of audiobooks. Yeah. A lot of audiobooks.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

Um first one that comes to mind. Generally the one that hits your gut most.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

Okay, this is not a good book, but The Shoe Dog.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Phil Knights. Um, it's not an educational book at all. It's an entertaining, it's a Nike book.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:12

So for the people who read it or who the people who hasn't read it, it's it's about how Nike became where it is now with a lot of gambling, risky moves, but it was just entertaining. But you you need to do it though. You just gotta do it, or else it's never gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:36

No, it's not amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

Yeah, you are amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:38

Don't just do it. No, it's not it's not a good advice at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Yeah, so you'd learn not to just do it, or you'd learn to work out.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

Have the courage, you know, have the courage, but still do your homework.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

I think courage needs to come with conviction, though. Like you need to be ready because when you pull out that sword and you go in for the kill, there's repercussions behind it, and you've got to be mentally prepared for that. You gotta know what you're getting yourself into. When you're starting a business and you want to go down that path, or when you're changing that job, or you're entering a new role, you're pulling out your sword and you're slaying something. So you gotta know after you did that kill what's gonna come and attack you. Yeah, and you gotta prepare to battle that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

I think when you're doing a business and you you hear this from all these other um entrepreneurs, but it's it's lonely. And also yeah, be prepared to die, basically. Like, you know, it can happen, it can always happen. Even if you're doing so well, yeah. So that's why you have to be always focused, have a good team.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:03

It's interesting you said the word lonely. That's what I built the Hospital Dojo community for. So people pay a membership, we meet once a week, and it's people from all over the world. We come together to discuss your last week's problems.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

With different restaurateurs, one could be a micro bakery, the other one could have four cafes, the other one would just have a burger truck, and the other one could be in a fine dining restaurant. No discrimination. And the other one could be an executive chef of a venue. Yeah. We're not there's no animosity, there's no judgment, we're hospitality professionals coming together, you vent out your problems, and it's not only me contributing, it's the other 30, 50 people in the room contributing back, saying this is how I combated it. So before we end the podcast today, I just want to ask you one question. During your journey, you've obviously faced some highs and lows. In the low periods of your journey, especially playing in an executive role, an entrepreneur, multiple businesses, moving into different partnerships. What's one way or what's one thing that allowed you to persevere through those tough and dark times?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:42

I have a funny answer, and I could just say alcohol. No, I think um you just gotta talk to your friends, you know. And again, like I just said, it's lonely, but and not not just lonely, like entrepreneur lonely. Like even if you're head chef somewhere, you might be lonely because you're the top, you know. But just make sure you you're sharing. I think sharing that sharing to your friends, sharing to people you love, I think it's important. And then um and they'll support you, you know. But it's hard, but don't give up, right? Don't give up, don't give up on yourself. You know, you're special. Um, do the right thing. You know, talk to God. Watch motivating podcast. I did it all, I think. I did it all. You will have negative uh down uh dark times too. You will just be ready for it. It's coming. It's not that bad. Oh ice bath sauna helps a lot. Ice bath, sauna, cold shower, exercise, pickleball.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

I like um paddle. I love paddle. All right, bye bye. No, yeah, I love paddle. Padel, it's a great sport, but it's a double thing. But I've never tried pickleball, so hopefully one day you can take me on the court, take me some shit.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:42

I think pickleball is still quite new.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:44

Padel has been there for a while. Internationally, it's bigger, it's just big. Uh pickleball is big right now in America and it's growing super fast. It's coming here, but you know, it's gonna take some time. The name is stupid. Um but it I think it's cool. Just try it out. Like, like um, oh, if we go to um Entertainment Quarter, you know, where Mall Park. Yeah, they have Padel and Pickle Ball both.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:15

Okay. Yeah. That's a good session.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:17

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:18

Chase, I really appreciate your time today, especially on a Friday night. Thank you so much. And uh I look forward to trying a new restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.