Hospo Dojo Podcast
Hospo Dojo Podcast
From Butter Blocks to Business Success: The Pepe Saya Story
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode, we chat with Pierre and Melissa, the founders of Pepe Saya. We discuss how Pierre, also known as Pepe, took a childhood nickname and a single block of butter from Sydney's Carriageworks markets and turned it into a successful business. They share practical advice for anyone looking to supply to restaurants, highlighting the importance of hard work, personal connections, and face-to-face interactions. We also discover how Pepe Saya's persistence and dedication led to their gourmet butter being stocked in grocery stores and top restaurants nationwide and their next move to supplying in the US. Join us to explore the hustle and heart behind Pepe Saya.
So we decided we're gonna churn it, make the butter, and then we can use the butter to make some of the desserts like an apple crumble or or cakes or whatever.
SPEAKER_03The Carriage Works Farmers Market was a really good platform for us to spruk that message to the wider audience.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the success of my client is fruitful to you as an individual.
SPEAKER_00Don't forget, you've got to do the, you've got to um, you know, pound the pavement. You've got to go door knocking. That's the success.
SPEAKER_01What's one piece of advice you would give to somebody starting up who wants to supply the restaurants just like you did? Guys, welcome to the Hospital Dojo podcast. Thank you. Thank you for coming. I know it's a Friday night, it's raining. You have better things to do, but you decided to join me here. But it's a it's a true blessing. So we have Pierre and Mel, the founders of Pepi Sayer. Um, for me, Pepe Saya, when I when I see the brand, I seen the brand first at Carriage Works in like 2013 when I was out of high school, and I was just like getting into hospitality, and all I seen was a beautiful young lady giving away bread and butter, just standing there giving away bread and butter. Hot bread with butter.
SPEAKER_03Was that me? I don't know. I don't know who was there. I can't remember.
SPEAKER_01It was maybe, maybe it was that it was it was that it was at Carriage Works, and they were just giving away hot hot bread and butter, and there was cues of people, and I was like, what is this thing? I've never seen a butter wheel this big in my life. And then the branding and just the way that you guys presented yourselves, and I was studying hospitality management at the time at university, I actually used your business as a case study, to be honest, uh, when I was at uni. I was like, like how these guys connect with the community and then they're able to go into stores and stuff like that. So I found um, yeah, I personally found it was very, very inspiring. And then when I was, I can't remember what year it was, but I got shouted a business class flight through a company, and then I was on I was on business class and I was going overseas, and then I seen your butter, and I was like, wow. And I was like, that's a great initiative from Quantas because they had the Byron Bay Cookie Co. and you guys, I'll never forget it. And I was like, to see like a small Australian company that started up to be on an airline, I was like, that's that's phenomenal, you know. So how did you guys even start the business? Like, where did Peppy Say come from?
SPEAKER_00Uh well in 2009, uh, the uh so the butter came before the brand, if that makes sense. Yep. So in 2009, we we had a little dessert company, and we had about 200 liters of cream left over, and we were shutting for two weeks, three weeks, I think, for Christmas, and we had all this cream and we needed to sort of get rid of it. So I was calling around as you do, like mates that have factories and hospitality and chefs who want some cream. You know, I was gonna just give it away or sell it cheap. But everyone else was shutting down as well. So I said to the team, uh, you know, stuff it will be.
SPEAKER_01You say 2009. And nine.
SPEAKER_00So post-GFC? Yeah, that was just after that. Yeah, yeah. So we we decided we're gonna churn the the cream to make butter because what else can you do with cream? You can't you freeze it, it goes back. It goes back, it starts to break it. It crystallizes and breaks down. And so we decided we're gonna churn it, make the butter, and then we can use the butter to make some of the desserts like an apple crumble or or cakes or whatever. So then we we churned it or we tried in a mixer, and from two 200 liters of cream, we got 10 kilos of butter. Right. And it was pretty sad, like that you should get 100 kilos of butter. We got 10 kilos of butter. So we wasted so much because we didn't know what we were doing. So I remember taking some home.
SPEAKER_04To me, was I the official taste tester?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Mel was the official taste tester, and she's like the next day she tried it, and she goes, Ah, that's terrible.
SPEAKER_03Uh uh, I wouldn't have said it was terrible.
SPEAKER_00Well, you said don't give up your day job, but stick to making desserts. Yeah. So that that's when that's when I sort of got a little bit obsessed about um how do I make this right? Yeah, how do I make good tasting butter? And then I started asking around and this and that and the other. One thing led to the other, and we decided, you know, oh, let's try to make some, let's try to make it taste good. And we stumbled across cultures. That's how you culture the cream to make it taste good. And and that was a thing then, like cultures were just starting to come out.
SPEAKER_01I think butcher started fermenting. Fermenting, that whole process was, you know.
SPEAKER_00It was just starting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you started seeing some bars overseas doing like fermentation as well.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So then it was like uh then we sort of were looking at um the well, good tasting butter, and where can you buy it? And Mel would always buy European brands, that yellow one, herminey from okay. Can't remember where it was from. Netherlands, yeah. I think I think maybe, yeah. And um, so we always had really good quality butter at home. What sorry, I'll just stop you there. What's the definition of good quality butter?
SPEAKER_01I don't know, besides peppy. Flavor.
SPEAKER_00Flavor. Flavor in the cream. So, so what and this is what it comes to. Uh so we we thought because I was in hospitality or making desserts, I went and visited some chefs and I was talking to them, and and I found that the the Haddered chefs had to book their uh allocation of butter from Europe for the whole year. So they were bringing it in through, say, Simon Johnson or Australia on a plate, and they'd have to know, okay, we need X amount of butter in the year. And I was like, oh my God, what you mean you have to allocate your butter? But Australia is like, we export 90% of the dairy we make. Is something happening? Am I missing something? So when we got talking to a lot of chefs, that just like my my brain was just going 100 miles an hour, going, oh my God, there's something in this. Like, hold on, you didn't what do you mean? You buy butter from overseas, you gotta, you gotta have an allocation, you gotta book it in for the year. What about the cost of that, the food miles, the this, that, and the other? And then um, and then I started asking the chefs that had chef restaurants, what why don't you like Australian butter? Like, what's this problem? And they every single person would say to me, well, first it tastes like um salt and water. There was no flavor in the fat. And I'm like, okay, interesting. And then you get the more you talk to the chefs, you get the real explanation of it. Well, when people come to my restaurant and I'm charging them $200 a head, because that's when degastations were big around 2009, 2010. Um, they're paying $200, $250 a head to come and eat here. Uh it's the it the first thing they're getting is that bread roll or the hot crusty bread with butter, and that sets the scene of the whole dinner, and it's part of it builds the experience that they have.
SPEAKER_01And I guess is it is it quite hard for a restaurateur to make butter in-house? It's just annoying.
SPEAKER_03Probably messy. It's a messy job, as we know.
SPEAKER_01It's a nuisance.
SPEAKER_03Um, I think, yeah, a few restaurants have started making their own butter. Um, they've obviously served our butter at one point in time, and they've thought it's this sounds like a really novel, nice novelty, and they start making their own butter, which is fine, we support that, no problem at all. Um, but eventually it becomes tiresome for them.
SPEAKER_00But but there was there was uh like Mark, remember Mark restaurant up on Surrey Hills? Mark. Mark Best. Yes. Uh so they wanted us to come in and teach them how to make butter when we first started, and Parsi was the chef there. Yep. And I went up, I said, no problem. They were buying the cream from the same farmer we use, John Fairley at Country Valley. And we went up and taught them how to culture it, how to make it. Beautiful. I just thought it'd be a lovely place for them to make their own butter in-house. But um, and they did a very good job at it. I think Parsi still makes the butter the same way. Yeah, uh, hopefully he credits us a little bit. Hopefully, he does. But uh we'll find out, we'll find out. Uh, but um, but it I thought it was lovely that they were willing to make their own butter, so I was happy to show them and teach them. Um, and they they shouted us a degastation dinner at the time, remember that?
SPEAKER_03I was pregnant with olives. Yes, our first son.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's right. So um, so it it's been a lovely journey, and a lot of people make that journey, you know. So the the um, but the the then we realized, then you know, as we went along and as we did our research and our market research and working out what was what and where we could fit in, we realized there was something here. There's really a niche. So were you doing that while you still had the dessert? Yeah, yeah. I was making the butter, I would start at 3 a.m. in the morning, uh, make it from three till about nine, and then start the desserts because I couldn't give up my day job to the wife said so. Yeah, but eventually we cracked it. I believe we cracked it and we came up with our own style uh of cultured butter. Uh so it does taste different. So if you put it against a French cultured butter or any other cultured butter, it does taste very different.
SPEAKER_01It's got its own unique flavour, it's very distinct. Like I've traveled uh quite a bit, and uh honestly, honestly, it's it's up there with one of my favourite butters. Like, I I can't leave like the the house has to always have a small wheel at home. It's been a thing like since we've been married for four years, um, the house has to have one. And we so like I've I've given I've given your ghee to my grandma, and she said, sorry, Paul, I'm still gonna make my own ghee. Yeah, and I said, Well, that's fine, like this is the best we can get when we don't know how to make ghee. And she goes, No, it's good, but like I like making my ghee. I'm like, okay, but uh, but she's starting to get a little bit tired now, so it's like, hey, you know, so sometimes I swing her some of yours, and uh, she secretly uses it without saying so, you know. I don't know if you know Middle Eastern grandmas at all. They don't like to show that they use other people's recipes. Um, but no, definitely you you really the product itself in this market, and especially to hold it for that long, like it's it's it's well standard. So congratulations. Thank you. Now, what what have you found like since that journey? So that was that was the first like like wow moment.
SPEAKER_00And then what happened then? Well, I think the tears on the couch definitely happened around 2011 when we realized that you know we got it into retail quite successfully, but we couldn't crack the chefs, we couldn't get the the hospitality to use the tough market. Yeah, tough market, because the main thing was like you gotta remember 2010 was a different, um, different than you know, landscape than today. Like in 2010, my issue was uh, or what we were fighting against, is that the chef that had a restaurant on the water overlooking the opera house and the harbour bridge would be serving a French butter, right? And a French champagne. Now, today you're still being served the French champagne, but I doubt any chef in their right mind would be serving you French butter looking at the harbor bridge or the opera house. Like it just seems like doesn't fit anymore, right? It's all local and you know, so the cultures change. The cultures change because it it the boom boom yeah, yeah. So the pioneers of of you know uh buying local, supporting local. I mean, you know, um uh Alex Herbert, be one, Neil Perry, you know, Matt Matt Moran. There's so many chefs, like you know, um Ingersol.
SPEAKER_03Mike McAnie.
SPEAKER_01Mike McInerney, and we never used to talk about the food mole, it was never a discussion, you know. And I guess it's now like I see even with like tenders for for projects, like if if somebody's gonna take on operations of a venue, we question what's your food mileage.
SPEAKER_00That's right, that's right. But but in in saying that, now I'm not having a pot shot at any chefs, I'm saying that one of the issues was is that the producers of dairy and everything else in Australia just did not step up to that mark. So you gotta really remember about what I'm saying. So it so the chefs would be like, well, we don't have access to this product to be able to showcase that. We want to serve our customers the best. That's it, that's where it stops, right? So they they want to give the best to the customers. So our thing was we couldn't really crack into that, and we had to, you know, we had to get a bit of a profile behind the brand uh to to actually get onto the tables and get onto the menus. Um, we had to give a little bit more than just good flavour. We had to give a bit more than that.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, we started to tell our story where we were educating people about the flavor of the butter and that I mean we've always stayed true to the to how the butter was made first back in 2000, end of 2009, 2010, the butter is still made the same way, and we haven't um changed that recipe. We've just pushed through educating the general public and the the chefs about how to embrace the flavor of our butter and how it changes over the course of its life, and it becomes more pungent and more flavoursome.
SPEAKER_01Um who would you find that was uh the key to your assistance in the communication? Or was it just you?
SPEAKER_03It was both of us.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, yeah, a lot of people. Yeah, a lot of people, our distributors, our friends, you know, uh Rob Locke communicating our story, doing videos.
SPEAKER_01But you must have had to get them to buy into the story. It's not like everyone just started communicating, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I think we we the I think the important thing is the mindset. So uh once your mindset is, you know, you're on the at the right frequency, then everyone else can everyone at that frequency can hear you then and then understand what you're saying. So you like it's like when you go out and do sales and you're talking to a customer, if they're not at your frequency, forget it, just walk away, you know. So, and the general public as well.
SPEAKER_01So it's like an alignment. You're like, this is what we're doing. Do you understand why we're doing this? You know, we're we're we're making an impact here, but do you want to follow through with this 100%?
SPEAKER_03So that's why the Carriage Works Farmers Market was a really good platform for us to sprook that message to the wider audience because you're already capturing the right type of customer that I mean, they're shopping at a farmer's market, they're there buying their organic fruit and vegetables, they're buying their um organic grass-fed milk, um, meats, exactly. They're happy, you know, to shop there and and spend their dollars, their hard-earned dollars there. It was the perfect place for us to get out in front of our people, our customers. As you mentioned earlier in the beginning of the this this this chat we're having, um, your experiences in having the butter with some bread, somebody, this beautiful big butter wheel, buttering some fresh sourdough, um, that that experience that's still with you today. And you said that you experienced that back in 2013.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I seen it there, and then I also think I seen you guys in tramsheds. Yes, yeah, that was a long time ago. Yeah, yeah, I remember tramshed. Yeah, tramshed. I remember tramshed, yeah. And I think I actually I I connected at carriageworks, but I connected more so at tram sheds, and that was when tramshed like really just opened. It was a as a precinct. And um, you guys really did do a really good activation there, and and it it held well for for for while the tramshed was there. So yeah, that was yeah, that was phenomenal. Just like, so what made you think just well, this is the best way to show it off butter and bread? How like what made you think that?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think it came down to putting you you we knew that we had to get the product in people's mouths to translate the brand. So when you can see the brand, and then once you taste the butter and you see the brand and you see their eyes light up, you know that you've nailed it. That's it. You that's it. And then we've never been able to let go of that formula, have we? I know.
SPEAKER_03It's still like today, every Saturday, where they're buttering, like tomorrow, Peppy said he and I will be there at the store buttering bread and lashings of butter. And it's just people, people, it's like their rite of passage when they come to the market. They've got their coffee in hand from single. Celery and their meat. They're coming to get their free sample of Peppy Say of Butter and Bread. It's our community service to the to the and we're happy to do it.
SPEAKER_00We don't have a limit. You can just come up and have bread.
SPEAKER_03Everyone's obligated to buy the butter, but they just and some people will come up and grab two or three, and it's my husband. Yeah, and I think okay, yeah, it's for your husband.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's for you, you just have a couple extra slices.
SPEAKER_04That's absolutely fine.
SPEAKER_03And then it's so funny. A couple of a group of people came up and a guy kept coming back up, a young guy, and he had like three or four samples. And and his friend called him called him out and said, uh, you know, he's had like two already. And he said, because he came up to me and said, I've just I've got it, I haven't tried this before. Can I try? I'm like, I'm thinking, yeah, I've seen it. I've seen you before.
SPEAKER_04Like three times before. And his his mate called him.
SPEAKER_01Forget that you're human, right? They forget, they think that you just like pass. But it's good, it's good. We like we like having it there. We want it.
SPEAKER_00We want it to, yeah. We part of the part of our thing is we have to do the bread and butter tasting, uh, even on slow days. Doesn't matter, we just do it. It just doesn't matter. And people are blown away still by that two kilo wheel that we have with the paper and and you've got to give a shout out to Sonoma because like they supply us the bread every week, week in, week out. Without a doubt.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's and how many years has that been running?
SPEAKER_00Oh, for since we started the market, like just as a shout out to them. They're uh hats off to them, they're amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they they they do they did beautiful work and it did they they like started from humble beginnings as well, like oh yeah, you know, the same thing.
SPEAKER_00They're the real deal. It's great to see a company do that well. That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01And have you found so you start 20 so the 2011, then you decided to shut the dessert shop. Yeah. When was that?
SPEAKER_00Uh we we closed that off about 2011, 2012. That and then you just went full scale butter. Then full scale butter.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you you entered the hospitality market, you were tipping your toes in, you're in the retail side, volume started growing. You obviously came across some pain points along the way. A lot, yeah. You know, like scaling isn't easy, especially in FMB. That's right. Especially in wholesale when you got accounts chasing money, yeah, yeah, and chasing money for butter, right? And and and so we could butter our bread. So you can butter your bread, right? What was it like um entering that level of operation for you to uh it it it was yeah, it came, it wasn't easy.
SPEAKER_00I mean, we had to do we had to get enough um mass to be able to then convert it to something bigger and bigger and bigger. So now we're like right now we're onto our third um creamery or factory. So first we started at St. Peter's, and then we went to a share facility in in Tempe, and then we now have our uh have a large um or medium size um creamery factory in Carringbar, and we're probably one step away from the hopefully the final one. So it's still one more step to go. Uh and you really do have to you don't want to chew off too much. You want to you want to crawl walk run sort of thing, and that's what we did.
SPEAKER_03We waited till we were bursting at the seams. I think as Peppy said, our first factory where we started making the desserts, it was like what how Big, it was small, it would have been maybe 150.
SPEAKER_00It was actually Antonio's Philo Pastries first factory. Oh wow. St. Peter's. St. Peter's. It was their first factory that we did it in. Wow. And then later on in our career we met them. Yeah. And they're such lovely people. Beautiful product. Yeah. Beautiful product. Beautiful people.
SPEAKER_01Used by every family member that you know.
SPEAKER_00Any Philipries that is there.
SPEAKER_03But that was a great little spot because we were on a main road. And we were able to capture a lot of traffic. We did some blackboard signs to promote and advertise the products that we were selling.
SPEAKER_01Close to the motorway. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Accessible to the city. Just off the Princess Highway, Campbell Street. So it's really cool. Now it's apartments. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like everything else. They widened that road and yeah. Yeah. It got deplored.
SPEAKER_01So we scaled and then, like, what would you find during your, let's say your first round of scaling? You know, so you you cracked the restaurants and you cracked all that. In your first round of scaling, where you were bursting that little factory, what was your biggest problem?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think your biggest problem is always when you're when you're scaling a product like this, is your labor cost. And then, you know, so because of labor cost being so high, it's it's just break-even. So you're pretty much always at a break-even because you know, once your input costs is cream, that's quite high. And then you your other biggest cost is labor. I mean, it's pretty crazy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like we were thinking our labour cost was at what 30 six. 39%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_0139%. Wow. That's huge for manufacturing. That's huge, but it's handmade, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I totally understand. So so normal butter, the average uh or the average labour cost for butter um nationally in Australia would be six point four percent labour cost.
SPEAKER_03But it's made very differently. That's industrialized, machine butter, highly processed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But the consumer doesn't know that, right? So when they look at your butter and they go, oh, nine dollars or three dollars. I mean, but you're at nine dollars still sitting at 39%.
SPEAKER_01That's right. That's all I'm saying. There's a ceiling, I guess, where like how much is somebody going to pay for butter?
SPEAKER_00Well, in New York, yeah, our butter sells for $17 USD. $17 US dollars. $17.99 USD. So it's like okay. I saw that and I was like, oh my god, what are they doing? This is bad, yes. You know.
SPEAKER_03But it sells, but it sells.
SPEAKER_00The guy's on his third order in a month. God bless him.
SPEAKER_02The guy owning the shop has uh.
SPEAKER_00We're not getting that. You know what I mean? So so what that so there it there is a disconnect. So uh in the scale up that we did, the um labor cost was massive. So we knew we had to go to semi-automated or at least help with reducing the labour. Yeah. So when we moved from uh Tempe to carrying bar, that's when we were able to get just by having more space, we reduced labor cost. And oh so oh well, because yeah, yeah. Efficiencies. It's efficiencies, right? So just on that, it's not always working on top of just just from space. Uh and then even though that your rent probably went up. Rent went down. Rent went down, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And labour costs went down because we're getting bigger space.
SPEAKER_00In Tempe, you're like Tempe's Marrickville, like Marrickville, Tempe, right near Ikea, we were. So like when you when you looked at what we were paying per square meter, it's like it was a it was sharing, sharing with someone. Sharing as well. Absolutely. So uh we went to 12 1200 square meters now. And yeah, the like how how was sharing?
SPEAKER_01That was interesting when you guys said that. How no, it was it was good, it was okay because we Do you recommend it for someone that's scaling?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, someone someone right at the beginning is good, uh, sharing right at the beginning because all your costs are shared, so it's it's mind-blowing as long as you can have your own space right within that share parameter. It's very important. Yeah, so we we were very lucky. We shared with patent sticks. Okay. So that was a lot of fun. It was a lot of you know a lot of synergy there, right? Yeah. And we and you know, we we ended up really lucky because uh one of the guys involved there was a guy called Ben Dutton, uh, who um who owns Ridiculously delicious and the stock merchant.
SPEAKER_01And he had so some beautiful some beautiful retail lines, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But he had a good he he had a really good commercial mindset.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we sort of pattern sticks just went like out of nowhere.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're great. They did a great job. The ice cream sandwiches, but they you know, it's tough because it was handmade and they were the same as us, like sort of that worked, but then once we we outgrew that facility, uh, they left. So we had a deal, whoever outgrows first stays or leaves. Yep. So we we sort of outgrew it, so they left, uh, and they were outgrowing it too. So we kept the facility, we're on our own there, and then we had to move because we needed something like three times that size. Well, and we were planning on exporting, yeah, because we knew export was sort of our only way. Next step, next step.
SPEAKER_01So now you're at like three, three thousand square meters close to no. Oh 1,200 now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh, but we've got yeah, we've got next door, we had to expand next door, yeah. I don't know how big big that is.
SPEAKER_01Oh, so the other one was about like five, six hundred the other sticks ones back. Fair, fair, sorry, excuse me. So if there was if yeah, yeah, and then how'd you get into the airline?
SPEAKER_00Uh how'd that happen? Well, Alex Woolley, who used to be the chef, uh the head chef at um Est in Marivale. Beautiful V, he wanted to use the butter, he tried it. Got a funny story on Est.
SPEAKER_01I'll tell you later.
SPEAKER_00He he knew um Roger Barstow at at um Rockpool Consulting and told him about the butter, and Roger had a tribe of it, really loved it, and obviously we got Neil Perry's blessing on it somewhere along the way, I'm sure, before it went on the airline. And then uh we developed, we actually developed some product like the butter as at the time for for first class. So they helped us a lot with developing how it should sit, what it should look like, and all that. So they were they were great. They're you know, the the team at Rockball Consulting are pretty they're professionals. What year was that? I think that was 2012.
SPEAKER_03I would have said yeah, 2012.
SPEAKER_002012.
SPEAKER_03But it was a different, we were doing the cut medallions, yeah, tab on top with a pepi say a paper tab on top, and it used to sit in the ramekin's.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And you would have to produce that in your facility? Correct, yeah. On the remekin. Or no, no, we'd put it in a cake. You'd put it. And then they would put it on the remekin on the on the flight.
SPEAKER_00But it was great because doing those sorts of things really pushes your QA, like your quality assurance, your hass up, you're making sure because they'd come in and order you. And and they were there really are a bunch of professionals at Quantus. Like the I remember Kevin Drew, um, he was he was the man in charge at the time of the QA part or the catering part of Quantus. Um, Quantus catering, wasn't it? Q catering. Q catering, Q catering, that's it. Uh and he would come into our facility and go, okay, you need to do this, you need to do that. And we was, we were like sponges. We were like, yes, tell us more. We want to do it. Like, we'd just do everything he said. Uh, because it it meant we could improve, improve, and you're getting this knowledge that you just cannot buy. No, you can't buy that knowledge. So he was great at Kevin Drew and you know, Neil Macintosh and all those guys that had such a big influence on how we did our QA from you know, we'd you know, we'd really, you know, really sponge information off them like something wicked and unapologetically, like these guys. Hey, you know more than I do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, tell me, tell me, you know, and that's you know, it along this whole session that we've send down, I found that you've had amazing people along the entire way through your journey. Yeah, but you know, everybody has opportunities to meet people, and we always, you know, we always face a new person, probably every day. So, like even in passing or at work, different stakeholders, you meet new people. What's one way that you found that you retain that engagement or you retain that connection when you really thought, hey, this person can help me on my journey? I don't want to use them. I don't want to feel like I don't want them to feel like I'm using them, but I really do need their help without having to pay them potentially. Like, how did you because a lot of this stuff that they were helping you, they'll they didn't need to. They could have just turned around and walked away. Yeah. Which which in some cases happens. But for you, you with your with your beautiful energy, you've been able to maintain this relationship. What do you think?
SPEAKER_00You know, I think I think for me it's always comes down to purpose. So if you have a purpose, they have a purpose, you have a purpose, the purposes meet. You sort of got those synergies going on, and there can be something. But uh, I find it hard to take from anyone without giving back. So I have an issue with that. Um but yeah, I I think that it it comes down to there's two things it comes down to. One, a friend in need is a pest. Whoever said that was right. And the second thing it comes down to is that on your journey, if you tell people where you're going, you're most likely able to get a lift there. Well, so that that's a really important lesson that I learned early early in my career. So uh, and that is what we call in modern day, we call communication. Yeah, right. So the more you're able to communicate where you're going to, the more likely, you know, you're gonna say, Oh, I'm uh well, you're going to Z, but I'm going to, you know, C. I'll take you to C, and you just keep going. So I think that's that's my interpretation of where and how our story was. And the amount of people that um built Pepi Sayer was not just Mel and I. Yep. It was like every single step of that way, you know, like they're they're all part of that.
SPEAKER_01It's like that old saying it takes a takes a it takes a village to raise a man, right? Exactly. And um, that's so well. That that what you just said there, the tell people on your journey and someone will take you there. That's phenomenal. Like I haven't I've I've talked to a lot of people, not many people have said that. So yeah, it's it's important to understand that part. But that shows that you will also do the same for somebody else.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he does.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what that's what I that's what I've quickly found, you know. For someone to say that openly would mean that they would do the same. Absolutely, yeah. Uh kudos to you, that you're true gentlemen.
SPEAKER_00I don't know about that, but no, but we we got taught a very valuable lesson early on in our career. Uh, is if you so so for me, there's two types of people. You've got your shark and you've got your artisan. And the shark is there to take whatever they can get, and it's very short term. And the artisans, they're the artisan code, is that if someone sits with you and asks you a question, you've got to tell them the answer. That's the you share your table and your knowledge with them. So there's been a lot of people in our journey that have been absolute champions, artisans of that, and really hold that up and really helped us through, like even people that you might pay as consultants, but they give you beyond just beyond the that beyond that means, yeah, of course. Yeah, there's some people that like genuine and advice is there, you take it or you don't take it, right? It's up to you what you take. And there's been a lot of sharks along the way as well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so as I was saying, through my through my career now, I've found being on the artisan side a lot more. Um, yeah, the success of my client is fruitful for to you as an individual. Like, and I I have like I've got many clients on a retainer where we touch base once a week and stuff like that. But then I'm like, this is my mobile number, you call me whenever you need me. Like, if you need access, you need it, you need something done, just pick up the phone. We need to make a decision together, right? I guess a lot of the listeners would would love to know what's one piece of advice you would give to somebody starting up who wants to supply to restaurants just like you did.
SPEAKER_00It's uh I guess have the make the best product you can possibly make. Um stand behind it and uh and don't forget that you have to knock on doors and and uh you know don't that's that's I mean there's I I'm not sure what sort of advice I can give on that.
SPEAKER_01Um you can break it down, it's okay. We can start what step by step. Nothing happens overnight.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think I think that most like if we break down, most chefs are happy to have new products come to them. And I think the biggest thing is don't be afraid to go and visit the chefs and and give your sample.
SPEAKER_01And so how how do they visit that chef? Like, what should they do? They just rock up to the restaurant or hey, here's my product.
SPEAKER_03Well, we we hit the um what was the the restaurant guide? Yeah, padded restaurant guide. I was sitting on a stool in our factory in St. Peter's.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and um I just was going through the book and good food guide. We sent samples out. It was a lot of sampling, I think, from our point. We sent 400 samples of of the butter to the chef, 400 chefs got it.
SPEAKER_03But I think it's important to qualify the customer that you're not just send, you know, yeah samples out to everybody.
SPEAKER_00I think yeah, it's important to but yeah, I think I think it's I think it's like the best piece of advice I ever got was you know that I could pass on is that don't forget you've got to do the you've got to um you know pound the pavement. You've gotta go door knocking. That's the success in in early stages, that's how you're gonna make it successful. But don't rely on just media. Like a lot of I see a lot of people doing that now. They just rely on you know social media or whatever. No, you've got to get in front of people, you gotta talk to people, you gotta explain what you're doing.
SPEAKER_01I think that that really works. And if someone's like an introvert, because you know, a lot of chefs quite introverted, right? A lot of people are introverted in this space. It's why we love the kitchen sometimes, right? As a as an your introvert, you want to show your creativity, you don't have that, you don't have that confidence to go speak to somebody sometimes. You don't that's why, you know, I always say people in the kitchen, they never want to work front of the house because they don't like confronting people. Yeah. So how would how'd you find that you overcame that besides of your Scottish and Lebanese orient? How'd you overcome that?
SPEAKER_00As once someone called me a miklebo. Um the um no, I don't think I don't think that's something you need to overcome, you know, the qualities of a person, whether they're introverted or shy or whatever, I think they should just hold on to those qualities that they have because that makes them who they are. And that's the sort of advice I give to my own kids. Like, don't worry about how you feel. Just be comfortable. You gotta learn how to be comfortable with yourself. In your own skin. Yeah, yeah, as you are. You don't need to change anything. But I think when it comes to uh when it comes to um, you know, a product or business, you do have to put the superhero mask on, and you do have to go in as a different person and and and challenge and and take what you want to the world, right? Because nothing comes like just comes by sitting back and waiting for it. You gotta go chase it. And that those words, you know, that all our parents told us as as kids, you know, uh is that, but you gotta go out and chase it. Like my parents told me that. It doesn't matter the background they were, they told me that. And everyone, you know, your parents.
SPEAKER_03Nothing comes to those who wait.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. You got to go out and get it. So I think like if you're if you've got a product and you want to get into that space with chefs or anyone, airlines, or you know, you want your butter served on cruise ships or wherever you want your product, it doesn't matter the product. You gotta get in front of people and you gotta talk about it and you gotta, you know, the more it like Mel said before, qualifying your your hit rate is much higher, right? So if you qualify 10 people, you're most likely gonna get nine or eight or nine sales out of it, you know.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I know when we were doing some sales in the US recently, like we would take some of the butter with us and we would get the chef to get it to get some bread, crack open the butter and butter it, and we'll eat it with him or her. You don't even have to talk. Yeah, it's like as Peppy always says, let the product speak for itself. It can do all the talking, and once they've tried it, that's it. That's it.
SPEAKER_01And I think this one's a bit a bit of a personal piece of advice. Have you two managed to stay as such a like I'm in the presence of you? Not many people can see this. Hopefully on video they'll see it, but in your presence, you can see that you guys are so well connected and so beautiful together. Have you held that relationship?
SPEAKER_03Why are you laughing?
SPEAKER_00Because it's like it's like it's like it doesn't like being called beautiful, but I'm thinking, bloody hell, I've I've just spent three months overseas out of the six months of this year. So we haven't been able to be together much this year, so it's been a hard year for us.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, it really has. It's yeah, completely turned our world upside down.
SPEAKER_01It's a short time, it's not a long time. It won't that that pass. But you've had so like we're talking from 2011 and then to now you scoured this company, you've gone international, you've moved through factories, we've had kids, you've had beautiful children.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Have you managed to keep that you know, a successful marriage as a successful partnership? Sarcasm.
SPEAKER_00True or not.
SPEAKER_04Sarcasm.
SPEAKER_00Sports, a lot of sports. So we do sports together. Like uh well, we swim and gym and gym together, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's a use you gym together, you swim together, you work together. Yeah, well a family that plays together, stays together.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_03Well, but we both have different um, I guess, different roles within the business. So Peppy's more he's amazing at the marketing, branding, communications side. And I'm more is that the sarcasm which is Edward.
SPEAKER_01That's the sarcasm.
SPEAKER_04Sarcasm comes from my side of the family. He had to, yeah, that's one thing he learned quickly when he joined, when he um at my Middle Easterns don't take sarcasm well.
SPEAKER_01No, at first it was very hard.
SPEAKER_04And then he grew a thicker skin.
SPEAKER_01And then what would what would be your roles?
SPEAKER_03Uh my mine, I'm well actually I'm really excited because now I've moved into more of a sales-oriented role. And um I think that as Peppy mentioned earlier, I think that's really important for the owners to be involved in that side of the business, visiting their customers, um, their stakeholders, engaging with them, um, communicating with them, keeping them informed, taking them new products, keeping the ear on the ground.
SPEAKER_00Correct. So we we work at we work as BDMs across our business. Yep. So Mel and I. So we we have both the same role. So we have a general manager that runs our business, but we work as BDMs. So where we need to say what BDM stands for.
SPEAKER_01But a development manager.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm something along B D
SPEAKER_00I told you you've got a lot of sarcasm that holds it together.
SPEAKER_03But I I'm also focused a bit on the HR side because that's my background and um the financials.
SPEAKER_01Besides keeping the culture alive in the butter, how do you keep the culture alive in your business?
SPEAKER_03Just gotta not worry about the competition and just keep looking ahead, pushing forward, raising that bar constantly, and just letting people watch on and um yeah.
SPEAKER_00There's a lot, it's layers and layers and layers and layers like any different. Is it like an onion? Yeah, is it like that?
SPEAKER_01Like Shrek. Yeah, Shrek. Acquisitions. Yeah. Your latest acquisition. Chunky Dave. How did you find out that was the right time to make an acquisition? Like you guys have been growing. You're obviously looking at diversifying in business. What made you say this is the one?
SPEAKER_03Fell into our laps, really.
SPEAKER_00Fell into our lap. Yeah, the time was right. I think everything has its, you know, like everything's got the right time that it happens. Uh you can't force things to happen before they're ready, they mature. So, you know, like um we get so many offers for people to buy our business, and it's just not the right time. There's things we want to still do.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, we want to say to our kids one day, oh, do you want it? Oh, you don't. Okay, let's sell it. So everything comes at the right time. Or tomorrow someone might just happen to find us in the right mood and we'll sell. Who knows? But you know, like everything's got to be the right time. So that acquisition was right.
SPEAKER_01And it's a it's a it's a complimenting business. What is it exactly? It's peanut butter.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's uh and what's so special about it? Um, so we make um so we make a beautiful natural peanut butter. Uh we source again local Australian King Roy Queensland peanuts that we mill, process, um, and we just add peanut oil. That's it. And we've got um we've just launched our amazing little 20 gram portions for cafes, cafe service. Um, so that's been uh that's now our next little pet project to get that out into the greater sphere.
SPEAKER_01So now you've got BDM and PDM. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03He'll use that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, great job. Yeah, the little peanut, the little peanut portion's amazing. It's great. Just it fixes the allergens.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. My my little sister's anaphylactic.
SPEAKER_00Decanting of a Yeah, that's that's big in the that's what we're finding now. Like a lot of uh like we're finding that hotel market are really into the portions because they go, Oh, well, allergens, we can't have anyone doing something stupid here, it's got to be in a container.
SPEAKER_03And I think Uber Eats as well is obviously taken off. So a lot of cafes doesn't have to be a good thing.
SPEAKER_01Portion control to be honest. Portion control. Right now, portion control is anything. Yeah, like it's everything, sorry. Like in a cafe now with GPs and and you know, we're always trying to hit, you know, a GP of 20 or cogs of maximum 20%. That's what I aim for. If anything's over that, the problem is like your numbers on a paper could be 20, but then in service it'll be 23 or 24. So on numbers, when it's 25 or 27, it's gonna be 30, 32 in service, right? That's right. So we do everything we can to just try and bring that down. And it doesn't mean dropping the quality of the product or the qu it's just about how do we change a quantity, how do we present it differently, how do we price it correctly, you know? It's that ceiling. So no, that that 20 grand push and innovation.
SPEAKER_00Innovation like cafes, cafes and restaurants right now, more than any other industry, have to innovate. Yep, big time.
SPEAKER_01Actually, see, we actually interviewed uh we did a pod with one of your clients, uh Happyfield.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, yeah, they're they talk about innovation. Yep. That's that's that's if if you could have a model of innovation, yeah, those guys are it.
SPEAKER_01And they were when they when they first rocked into Haberfield, they were told you guys aren't gonna last two weeks here, should shut the door. And then they win, you know. Not only do they get Cafe of the Year, but Good Food Guide brought back the award and they gave it to somebody, so they must have had to, you know, do something, even though there's been such amazing cafes recently. Um yeah, definitely. Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you so much for spending your time today with me.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_01It's been an amazing episode. I've uh I've learned so much, and uh you've truly, truly opened my eyes uh to so many things. And I guess uh whoever's listening to this, hopefully they can get um just a taste if they if they listen to the whole thing. I I hope that they could really see the value in what you what you shared with us today, and especially you know, you should be proud of your journey and hold your head up high, and like you know, soon soon to be how we have Quantus as the spirit of Australia. We have Peppy Saya, the spirit spirit of Australian butter. Well, what's your slogan for butter?
SPEAKER_00Oh god, I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Do you have Peppisaya one butter at a time?
SPEAKER_00That was our that's always been our slogan. Yeah, yeah. Like um, one butter at a time, and then there's the round butter with the head on it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but I think I like the one butter at a time.
SPEAKER_00One butter at a time, because we didn't know how we were going to like they used to say at the beginning, they used to all ask, Well, what's your business plan? How are you gonna get well one butter at a time? And all these consultants would say to you, Well, no, that's not it's not specific enough. Yeah, I go, What do you mean? It's just one butter at a time, but it's 24 million people, it's one butter at a time.
SPEAKER_03So tomorrow it's like a you know, 600 bread and butter tastings at Courage Works. That's that's 600 more people mouths that we've got Peppy Say of butter into.
SPEAKER_01Guys, thank you so much again. It's been a blessing, thank you, and a pleasure. And uh I hope I hope we keep the channel of communication open and uh look forward to watching your journey grow. Thank you, thank you.